Airline Pilot Central Forums

Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)
-   Fractional (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/fractional/)
-   -   Scheduling troubles at Avantair? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/fractional/53005-scheduling-troubles-avantair.html)

gremlin 08-23-2010 05:41 PM

Scheduling troubles at Avantair?
 
I ran into an Avantair crew today who said they are worried about losing their 7 on/7 off schedule. Hope everything works out OK for you guys.

g

T56Maniac 08-24-2010 02:21 PM


Originally Posted by gremlin (Post 859925)
I ran into an Avantair crew today who said they are worried about losing their 7 on/7 off schedule. Hope everything works out OK for you guys.

g

What did they say it would go to??

celloman 08-24-2010 08:04 PM

Right now they are testing the watters and it looks like we will have a choice.

1. 7 on 7 off
2. 8 on 6 off for more pay
3. 14 on 14 off

UCLAbruins 08-25-2010 02:53 AM


Originally Posted by celloman (Post 860449)
Right now they are testing the watters and it looks like we will have a choice.

1. 7 on 7 off
2. 8 on 6 off for more pay
3. 14 on 14 off

what about the 14 ON- 14 OFF, more pay??

dudemize 08-25-2010 06:19 AM


Originally Posted by UCLAbruins (Post 860499)
what about the 14 ON- 14 OFF, more pay??

UCLA, I thought the same thing. They better pay more! The company gets 2 more full days out of you as compared to two 7 day tours (only 2 travel days vs 4)

BeenThereDoneIt 08-25-2010 06:58 AM

One of their Captains told me that the company wants 8-6 with NO extra pay. That equates to a 10% pay cut annually. I hope that isn't the case!

celloman 08-25-2010 09:20 PM

Hmmm check your facts before posting..... what I post is the truth

There is a financial incentive for 14 on 14 off.

FlyGirl63 08-31-2010 04:44 PM

They need to increase profits which is why they are now mandating 14 on/14 off to all new hires and asking for the rest of the pilot group to volunteer for the 14 on/14 off. It would defeat the purpose to increase pay

FlyGirl63 08-31-2010 05:26 PM

BTW, I just want to add that AvantAir is a great company to work for. The management works closely with the pilots to try to come up with workable solutions. It is still like a family atmosphere, as opposed to a big corporation like the airlines. In these times, everyone is looking for ways to save money and the 14/14 is one way to trim costs.

BeenThereDoneIt 09-01-2010 05:19 AM

Fly and Cello seem to be disagreeing on the incentive. Who knows the truth? I do know that the CEO just asked 1/3 of the pilots to go on a 14/14 schedule. The CEO also just got a 100% pay raise this year with his new contract.....a $400,000 RAISE. So much for trimming costs.........:)

Did the D.O. really get "reassigned?"

402DRVR 09-01-2010 07:04 AM


Originally Posted by BeenThereDoneIt (Post 864102)
Fly and Cello seem to be disagreeing on the incentive. Who knows the truth? I do know that the CEO just asked 1/3 of the pilots to go on a 14/14 schedule. The CEO also just got a 100% pay raise this year with his new contract.....a $400,000 RAISE. So much for trimming costs.........:)

Did the D.O. really get "reassigned?"

I'm sure you would agree that with contentious subjects such as this facts are very important. Could you please cite the source of this information? Avantair being publicly traded means this information is publicly available. I am not suggesting you are wrong but a source would be good. What I have read indicates otherwise.

Recession or not: majority of highest-paid CEOs got a raise - Tampa Bay Business Journal

BoilerUP 09-01-2010 07:10 AM

Two weeks is a LONG time to be on the road, away from family.

Sure you'd get two weeks off on the back end...but if you've got children does that make up for it?

jtf560 09-01-2010 07:21 AM

I used to do 2 on 2 off when I was a single guy. It worked great with a vacation every month, but this was when 135 guys could jumpseat pretty easily. It would be brutal with a wife and kids. I hope it is only a voluntary option for you guys and gals and that nobody gets forced to do it.

celloman 09-01-2010 07:48 AM

Ok I am going to clear the air up as much as I can.

1) The original concern about the schedule came when an email went out asking pilots if they thought they would be able to do an 8/6 or 14/14. This turned into tons of speculation on the pilots part. (each choice either had extra pay or some type of incentive added.) This email was just to find out how many might be able to.

2) The CEO asked the pilots last night to consider 14/14. There is no forcing of pilots to do this.

3) There will be incentives if you decide to switch to 14/14. At this point we dont know what they are and can only speculate.

It is my understanding at this time it will only be for a year comitment.


-celloman

BeenThereDoneIt 09-01-2010 08:22 AM

402....are you wanting the facts about his payraise? That's the only facts I have. The part about 14/14 and all that is merely speculation.

Here is a "starter"

http://investing.businessweek.com/re...ticker=AAIR:US

FlyGirl63 09-01-2010 05:28 PM

Mr. Santo appealed to the pilot group to consider the 14/14 schedule. He said that some incentive would be offered, such as a one-time "signing bonus" of appx. $2,000 for those that were willing to commit to the schedule change. He said that he needed about 1/3 of the pilot group to commit to the proposed changes and hoped that enough would volunteer in order to avoid a "forced" schedule change. In other words, if enough pilots don't step up and volunteer to fly the 14/14 schedule, the pilots will be forced to fly that schedule. Discussion indicated the schedule would be implemented according to seniority but it seemed that the specific details were not completely worked out yet. As stated earlier, he said the reason is to trim operating costs...
which now I find surprising in light of the info regarding his pay increase which will go into effect in October 2010.
2009 COMPENSATION*
Salary $408,000
Bonus $452,000
Total Annual Compensation $860,000
Other Long Term Compensation $102,668
Total Calculated Compensation $962,668

Beginning October his base salary is increasing nearly $100,000 to $500,000. With bonuses he'll be earning over a million dollars, while asking his pilots to make QOL sacrifices by enforcing a 14/14 day schedule. ???

In asking the pilots to make the sacrifices he seemed to genuinely be concerned about the fiscal future of the company and said they need to trim appx. $500,000 per month in operating expenses. With the revelation that he's increased his own salary significantly, it's pretty disheartening. I also just learned that Avantair is sponsoring a lavish polo event this coming weekend with Ralph Lauren model/pro polo player/star Nacho Figueras as their guest. And they also recently committed to a multi-year sponsorship of the Tampa Bay Rays baseball team.

Things that make you go hmmmmmm.....

T56Maniac 09-01-2010 11:37 PM

Hmmmmm...... Fly girl, where did u find these figures? Now I'm curious.

BeenThereDoneIt 09-02-2010 06:47 AM

Maniac....just Google it. You'll find a lot more than that....like his apartment subsidy, car allowance....ect.

dudemize 09-02-2010 10:55 AM

If I were forced onto a 14/14 schedule I would be handing in my resignation paperwork shortly thereafter. 7/7 works fine for me. Any longer than that is too much!

I couldn't even imagine doing a 14 day tour in the X at NJA.

BeenThereDoneIt 09-02-2010 06:52 PM

Dude....ya think they would have unionized by now, eh?

sharkbait 09-04-2010 07:05 PM


Originally Posted by dudemize (Post 864917)
If I were forced onto a 14/14 schedule I would be handing in my resignation paperwork shortly thereafter. 7/7 works fine for me. Any longer than that is too much!

That's the plan.

Ski Patrol 09-06-2010 07:07 PM


Originally Posted by BoilerUP (Post 864186)
Two weeks is a LONG time to be on the road, away from family.

Sure you'd get two weeks off on the back end...but if you've got children does that make up for it?

The answer is no.

socalflyboy 09-07-2010 03:30 AM


Originally Posted by celloman (Post 864210)
Ok I am going to clear the air up as much as I can.

1) The original concern about the schedule came when an email went out asking pilots if they thought they would be able to do an 8/6 or 14/14. This turned into tons of speculation on the pilots part. (each choice either had extra pay or some type of incentive added.) This email was just to find out how many might be able to.

2) The CEO asked the pilots last night to consider 14/14. There is no forcing of pilots to do this.

3) There will be incentives if you decide to switch to 14/14. At this point we dont know what they are and can only speculate.

It is my understanding at this time it will only be for a year comitment.


-celloman

That would be one long *** year for me!!!!!:eek:

trxline 09-07-2010 05:47 AM

As everyone already knows, once you give up QOL in avaition, it's gone forever.
Any ripple at a company, and its time for the pilots to give it up!

What is the CEO and Upper Management doing?

FlyGirl63 09-07-2010 10:52 PM


Originally Posted by BeenThereDoneIt (Post 866961)
In the conference call last week between the CEO and the pilots, the CEO (who just got a 100% pay raise) asked 1/3 of the pilots to volunteer to go to a 14/14 schedule to save the company money. It is my "understanding" that all new hires go to 14/14 regardless. Where are all the Avant guys that usually defend their company?

I think the morale is pretty low right now. It has been a great company to work for, but has turned into an understaffed nightmare for all employees due to growth. And Avantair reports they expect to double the aircraft fleet in another four years or so. Long hours of flying max time with short turnarounds and sometimes forced into overtime, as it is. The pilots are restless, PAC is working with mgmt. to get some concessions and 14/14 seems the only/best alternative to achieve the company's financial goals. QOL will suffer and marriages will likely end with the stressful schedule. The 14 days off does not make up for those gone when you have a family.

MNPS 50N50W 09-08-2010 10:18 AM

This is the problem with companies these days. The CEO gets a big pay raise, then ask the employees to work harder for less....

Then there are Pilots that feel the need to move on to bigger and better companies, ie more money in their pockets, ie supply and demand.

They have gotten away way too long paying low wages, for high quality work.

PAY UP OR I'M LEAVING.....

BeenThereDoneIt 09-08-2010 12:43 PM

The sad part is that the PAC Board seems to be very proud of this. Maybe all 5 of them are volunteering for 14 on/14 off. Naaaaaaaa.......:D

BeenThereDoneIt 09-10-2010 07:58 PM

It appears that the 14 on / 14 off fiasco at Avantair has been scrubbed thanks to the pilot group's overwhelming rejection of the idea. They said NO to the PAC Board and management. Good for you guys. Your families will appreciate you choosing them over the ideas of the PAC and CEO.

Triggs 09-11-2010 08:34 AM

So much anger for someone who doesn't work there

BeenThereDoneIt 09-11-2010 01:53 PM


Originally Posted by Triggs (Post 869100)
So much anger for someone who doesn't work there

LOLOL.......if you only knew how many of them thanked me for posting since their jobs would be in jeapordy if they did. Besides....you didn't volunteer for the 14/14 either. You wanted the "other guys" to do it. They ratted you out dude.

dosbo 09-11-2010 02:11 PM


Originally Posted by trxline (Post 866906)
As everyone already knows, once you give up QOL in avaition, it's gone forever.
Any ripple at a company, and its time for the pilots to give it up!

What is the CEO and Upper Management doing?


Don't they always get bonuses for solving the problem?:confused:

dudemize 09-12-2010 12:49 PM


Originally Posted by BeenThereDoneIt (Post 868935)
It appears that the 14 on / 14 off fiasco at Avantair has been scrubbed thanks to the pilot group's overwhelming rejection of the idea. They said NO to the PAC Board and management. Good for you guys. Your families will appreciate you choosing them over the ideas of the PAC and CEO.

Glad to hear it. Does management really think pilots could fly their asses off like we do in the fractional world for 14 consecutive days safely? I can't even fathom doing a 14 day tour in the X at NJA. All the productivity gains would be lost due to fatigue calls.

BeenThereDoneIt 09-13-2010 08:02 AM

Fly Dude.....the company will STILL save money and make you happy if you volunteer for 14/14. All YOU and you and your 4 friends on the PAC Board have to do is run into the office and tell them you are VOLUNTEERING for 14/14. Even if 1 pilot does this schedule, the company will save some money. SO.....you guys be leaders and run and get this done. All the new hires are supposed to be FORCED onton 14/14, aren't they?

This time next week we expect to hear that YOU and 4 PAC members are now on a 14/14 schedule. The company will have more money for management raises too ! Don't let us down....LOL

detpilot 09-13-2010 11:09 AM

Well we get 14 on and 7 off (24 hour on call)... Not saying it's good, but I don't think they'd be getting fatigue calls left and right. In any event, glad to see it was rejected.

FlyDude 09-13-2010 11:52 AM


Originally Posted by BeenThereDoneIt (Post 869885)
Fly Dude.....the company will STILL save money and make you happy if you volunteer for 14/14. All YOU and you and your 4 friends on the PAC Board have to do is run into the office and tell them you are VOLUNTEERING for 14/14. Even if 1 pilot does this schedule, the company will save some money. SO.....you guys be leaders and run and get this done. All the new hires are supposed to be FORCED onton 14/14, aren't they?

This time next week we expect to hear that YOU and 4 PAC members are now on a 14/14 schedule. The company will have more money for management raises too ! Don't let us down....LOL

As usual your comments show how little you understand. Just because you weren’t cut out for the fractional world, doesn’t mean that it is bad.
You made your choice not to stay in this business. I made mine of staying in it.
I know I made the right choice for me. :)

Geronimo4497 09-13-2010 01:10 PM


Originally Posted by BeenThereDoneIt (Post 869885)

This time next week we expect to hear that YOU and 4 PAC members are now on a 14/14 schedule.


http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:E...enhawk.jpg&t=1

mowiepilot 09-13-2010 08:40 PM


Originally Posted by BeenThereDoneIt (Post 869223)
LOLOL.......if you only knew how many of them thanked me for posting since their jobs would be in jeapordy if they did. Besides....you didn't volunteer for the 14/14 either. You wanted the "other guys" to do it. They ratted you out dude.

should read .... if you only knew how many people can't believe I post false statements.

Your other post did have positive statements in that the management is working with a pilot group. From all my experience that is an industry first.

And after reading several news articles, Avantair appears to be poised for a great future. No furloughs, no cutbacks, and a great airplane to operate in these economic times.

BeenThereDoneIt 09-14-2010 08:47 AM

I agree with you. However, someone other than me started a thread about the 14/14 schedule. The pilot group rejected it overwhelmingly. Don't blame me. I didn't have a vote. Give credit to the pilot group for saying "no."

BeenThereDoneIt 09-14-2010 08:49 AM


Originally Posted by celloman (Post 861091)
Hmmm check your facts before posting..... what I post is the truth

There is a financial incentive for 14 on 14 off.



We know you post the truth. What did that financial incentive end up being?

turbotrash8er 09-15-2010 10:05 AM


Originally Posted by BeenThereDoneIt (Post 870304)
I agree with you. However, someone other than me started a thread about the 14/14 schedule. The pilot group rejected it overwhelmingly. Don't blame me. I didn't have a vote. Give credit to the pilot group for saying "no."

Glad to see that management listened to the pilot group on this 14/14 subject. I'm not with Avantair but I could imagine that working 14 day tour could be tough?


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:44 AM.


User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Website Copyright ©2000 - 2017 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands