Mattio

I realize Netjets isn't going to be hiring for a little while (hopefully it won't take too long and things will pick up for them overseas). What is the best thing I could do to make myself marketable at a place like Netjets. I am currently a head flight instructor at a univ. but I worked for a regional for two years as an FO and I have about 2800 hours with 1100 turbine SIC.

Would it make any difference to them or similar companies if I gained additional experience at an airline or at a corporate gig. Would the corporate experience be more beneficial?

UCLAbruins

Hard to tell what Netjes will be looking for when hiring does resume, whether its 2, 3 or 4 years down the road. Sokol (our new CEO) has changed a lot of things, including personnel which might impact-change our hiring practices. If I had to guess, I'd say guys with a corporate background have an edge. But in order for your application to trigger the system, you'd still need a certain amount of turbine-time, and at least 4000TT (I'm guessing). Just before hiring ceased, they were interviewing guys from all walks of life, usually in the 4000-5000 total time range.

NJA has almost 500 guys on furloughed, even though some of those guys will not be coming, we're still fat on aircraft. So it might be a while. Netjets Europe is on the same boat and they want an EU passport, JAA medical and ATP.

Not sure if you'd be interested in Executive Jet Management, or perhaps Netjets Middle East?

kingairfun

It's going to be a pretty long time before NJA hires. From what has been discussed the fleet plan is still forecast to shrink a bit before returning to even today's levels. ( No impact on current staffing yet.)

And then those new Embrear's on order aren't scheduled for delivery until 2013. Most of those are just replacements for what NJA plans on losing during the "resizing" over the past couple of years. And take into acount the time it will take to manufacture/deliver 100+ a/c. It'll be a couple years unless there is explosive re-growth and NJA takes delivery of maybe 8-10 a month!!

Also factor in the large number of owners contracts up this year and next.....Hopefully NJA can retain most, and still have positive owner sales for the year. But that is all still unknown. Hopefully there will be a nice trend of owners NOT leaving and NJA will take notice and forecast staffing accordingly. (It is my belief that if an owner wanted out they would have done it last year, so unless something better comes along etc. they hopefully will stay.)

I think there will be some recalls next year or so, and eventually NJA will be in a total recall mode. Plus the fact that airlines will be hiring, and there are definitely current NJA guys (SIC's) who still would prefer Delta/SWA over NJA. Also there are a handfull of furloughees who will either retire, or find a better job. Jetblue and Airtran hired some and it will be interesting if they come back. Especially if they have been at a Jetblue for 3-4 years and closer to upgrade.

If I had the $$ to bet, I'd say furloughees all called back by say summer 2014. But unfortunately no "big hiring spree". Unfortunately the days of RTS growing the company like mad are over. The new beancounters are much more calculating and shrewd. Do more with less types. If there is a huge explosion in the economy and more and more become wealthy it may happen for a bit, and then we can gear up for the next recession. (or contract negotiation )

UCLAbruins

NJI furloughed 30 people, most if not all of those guys will not be coming back. Most of them found Gulfstream (or large cabin bizjet) jobs already, I doubt they'd give that up to come back and fly a phenom 300 for less money.

Unless Netjets offers those guys their Gulfstream seats back (and that won't happen) they won't be back.

Mattio

For what reasons might I ask? Pay, travel bennies, bigger airplanes, more flight hours..?

kingairfun

Any of the above. Maybe personal reasons, career ambition.

Although flight hours prob. is not on the list. (by this stage of the game logbook comparisons, or asking someone "how many hours do you have?" doesn't occur very often if ever.

I know I still find myself seeing a Delta 76, or any other heavy roll through the airport, and remembering what I starting flying to do. (although now it's all about $$ and schedule, and time at home).

Travel bennies, although not very usefull most of the time, is another aspect that I missd when I went to NJA. Used to be able to hop a flight to anywhere to attend concerts, visit friends etc.

And some really don't like catering to the rich. And would rather turn left at the door. I can't fault them for liking one over the other. I actually found the really wealthy to be very pleasant to talk to.

NJA flying is fun and different. But above all it was the benefits ($$) and free food that most appealed to me. And being able to live in 100 different places without having to worry about commuting. Nice hotels, and no security lines day in and day out.

If it's a place you definitely want to work then your one step ahead. Although I wouldn't pass up any opportunities that may arise just because your holding out for NJA. It may be a while. But will happen eventually if you keep plugging away at it.... Just remember that the shiny corporate jet excitement does wear off and you will eventually realize that this place is just as screwed up as the rest.

UCLAbruins

the big airplane syndrome. In the long run pay is better at the majors, the bennies are better at Netjets, so it all evens out at end. But many people still wanna fly that 777 accross the Pacific... I'm sure we have guys trying to get on at Emirates, Qatar, Cathay, etc...nothing wrong with that

jtf560

Many pilots will chose to go to the majors instead of come back to NJA and many who didn't get furloughed will probably also leave. The biggest reason is the lack of upgrade opportunities- basically lack of making much more money for a long, long time. Pay as an FO at NJA is still better than the vast majority of jobs that any of us could be doing outside of aviation and there are no guarantees at the majors. One of the guys in my initial class left here and went to United when they started hiring. He is furloughed from there now. I can see what he was thinking- get in at the beginning of a hiring cycle and you don't get furloughed so much, but that cycle was extremely short and the retirement age was pushed up to 65 so he took a chance and got hosed. The majors will have a ton of attrition with age 65 starting in a couple of years and lots of pilots are salivating at the chance to get in when massive hiring will be pushing people up the seniority list quickly. It is still a huge gamble they won't be furloughed at the next economic hiccup or that their airline won't go out of business or that the retirement age won't get bumped up again. They are two very different kinds of flying and each kind has it's advantages. I miss the cockpit door and jumpseating, but unless NJA truly takes a dump and looks like it is going to die, I don't plan on going anywhere.

The last hiring cycle here the hiring department was looking at pilots with good customer service skills. That was one of the biggest things they wanted. I don't know what to suggest to get those skills or show those skills in an interview, but that was what they were looking for last time (along with the letters of recommendation and an average of 4000+ hours of experience). They do hire from all different backgrounds as long as you have a reasonable amount of turbine time from whatever background you come from. Good luck if this is still the job you want whenever it is in the not so near future that new hires are brought in.

kingairfun

Good points on all. I think the next hiring cycle will be pretty lengthy at the majors because of the retirements. On the flipside, NJA has no retirement requirements so that is an even bigger crapshoot.

I'm already thinking ahead to the next economic hiccup. How will this effect NJA? An those coming back. I have a feeling that by the time the last furloughed is recalled we could be very close to another small scale recession (nothing like now)..... My first question in indoc, right after management telling us how great NJA is, will be"ok whats the plan for the next recession?"

As far as the majors and fuel costs, oil is climbing once again! A few years ago when the economy was cranking, fuel kept the majors from showing a profit. Will this happen again? I see the cost of oil to keep rising as the dollar weakens. Hopefully it doesn't wreak havoc like it did last time. Hopefully the majors were able to hedge their fuel bets correctly this time. (Except United, who I think hedged at $140 because they thought oil would keep rising)

I envy some of my buds who were able to get with a major and avoid furlough last hiring cycle. They will be sitting very very pretty here in a few years. They will probably be heavy Captains by 40!!

I will probably just hold out for recall. The pay towards the top of the FO scale (where I'll be) is pretty good compared to starting over at an airline when they do start hiring. And I'm hoping alot of guys ahead of me chase the Major airline dream.

Mattio

Thanks for all the great feedback, guys. I think NJA would suit me better than a major, with the QOL and bases all over. I personally think flying a small jet would be more fun than a large one... I also have experience with customer service jobs and have decent people skills.

I'm hoping I could get a job at fractional operation and get into that sector of aviation. I plan on calling Alpha Flying tomorrow to hopefully get some info about their outlook. It's good to hear that getting more experience for a regional wouldn't give me a significant edge because I really don't want to work for one if I don't have to.

Thank you very much for all the info