Midair Crash
08-31-2006, 06:17 PM
#21
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Joined APC: Jun 2005
Posts: 521
450 TAS would be a lot closer, but maybe still a little off. I know of some Hawkers haveing an VMO of 385kts. At 16000, that would not quite come out to 450, but could be pretty close. 16000 / 1000, x 5 = 80 + 385 = 465
probably off some without exact weather info, but maybe a slightly better idea. Just my 2cents.
probably off some without exact weather info, but maybe a slightly better idea. Just my 2cents.
08-31-2006, 06:35 PM
#22
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 295
Any glider pilots want to weigh-in here? Had near mid-airs with two here in the UK just a few weeks ago. Right in the radar pattern of a well known military airfield. I know the unpowered aircraft has the right-of-way and all, but really, these guys need to seriously think about where they are operating. Low time, recreational pilots in non-squaking aircraft have no business near high density turbojet operations IMHO.
08-31-2006, 08:03 PM
#23
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,273
Originally Posted by Tanker-driver
Any glider pilots want to weigh-in here? Had near mid-airs with two here in the UK just a few weeks ago. Right in the radar pattern of a well known military airfield. I know the unpowered aircraft has the right-of-way and all, but really, these guys need to seriously think about where they are operating. Low time, recreational pilots in non-squaking aircraft have no business near high density turbojet operations IMHO.
09-01-2006, 10:54 AM
#24
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 295
Agree with rickair. Those guys are almost impossible to see unless/until they lift up a wing. The other day when we had our close encounters, there was talk in our jet of filing paperwork against those guys. I had to remind my guys that this could only be harmful to our careers since we were technically the ones in the wrong. ICAO/FAR regs shouldn't be used in place of good situational awareness and judgement. Frustrating. I don't want to sound like I'm trying to discourage grassroots/general aviation here. Far from it. However, that doesn't mean that everyone who shares the sky shouldn't have a high level of SA.
09-02-2006, 05:21 AM
#25
New Hire
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 7
Some of those glider pilots can be a bit...daring. Flying KC-10s out of March AFB, we'd have gliders out of Hemet making a bee-line for us as we entered the pattern. Their goal; to use our thermals to gain more altitude. Just a tad un-nerving to see one of these guys not moving in the windscreen until the last minute!
09-02-2006, 08:15 PM
#26
Gets EVERY weekend off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: SIC
Posts: 1,367
you'll be lucky if the glider pilots are carrying radios, much less a transponder. Issue on the TX would be finding an adequate source to power the stupid thing...guess a mighty air driven generator would work, lol.
09-03-2006, 11:41 AM
#27
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Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: A320/321 FO
Posts: 1,114
Originally Posted by FlyerJosh
Dude,
This is why I hate webboard "experts". Uconn, you might have more info about the Hawker than I do, but don't pass yourself off as being in the know (by saying "I fly the XP now") if you haven't even finished ground school.
It does nothing but hurt your credibility for the future. You free to tell us that you've discussed it in training. Or with other Hawker pilots. But don't pass yourself off as somthing you aren't. That's lame.
This is why I hate webboard "experts". Uconn, you might have more info about the Hawker than I do, but don't pass yourself off as being in the know (by saying "I fly the XP now") if you haven't even finished ground school.
It does nothing but hurt your credibility for the future. You free to tell us that you've discussed it in training. Or with other Hawker pilots. But don't pass yourself off as somthing you aren't. That's lame.
09-03-2006, 07:46 PM
#28
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Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: 737 Right
Posts: 1,385
A part owner of the Arizona Diamondbacks was in the Hawker. I saw the article in the Arizona Republic. Here's a link to the article. It sounds even more harrowing than the photo suggests:
http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news...crash0831.html
As far as hitting gliders, I flew F-16's in Germany in 90-91. Gliders at that time were much more prevelant there than anywhere else I've seen. I used to call them barrage-gliders and had many "near-hits" (as there's no such thing as a near-miss eh?). In the summer of 90 we had one of our jets hit a glider and kill the glider pilot. The F-16 sustained severe damages but the engine ran long enough to get the jet on the ground. Back then we typically cruised all over Germany at 420-480KCAS so you didn't get much warning. As you probably already know, gliders are virtually invisible to radar.
http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news...crash0831.html
As far as hitting gliders, I flew F-16's in Germany in 90-91. Gliders at that time were much more prevelant there than anywhere else I've seen. I used to call them barrage-gliders and had many "near-hits" (as there's no such thing as a near-miss eh?). In the summer of 90 we had one of our jets hit a glider and kill the glider pilot. The F-16 sustained severe damages but the engine ran long enough to get the jet on the ground. Back then we typically cruised all over Germany at 420-480KCAS so you didn't get much warning. As you probably already know, gliders are virtually invisible to radar.
09-03-2006, 08:43 PM
#29
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,273
The radar thing might be an easy fix...line the inside of on side of the cockpit or fuselage with aluminum foil...this would only work at a certain range of target angles, but gliders turn a lot, so presumeably ATC would get the picture. Or purchase an off-the-shelf radar beacon and carry it in the glider, if there's room. That would work at any target angle.
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