Nja
 

So basically we have a union exec. saying the NJA ship has sailed. Time to move on.... Of course no hard facts except the customary threat from management last week...

Anyone care to chime in?

can you elaborate? are you saying that the 500 of us that are furloughed should move on? I don't remember reading that in the 411. That's not to say that I haven't already moved on, but maybe after I retire from my current job in 20 years, they will be close to recalling my number....

I should have phrased it better...the union exec is basically saying time to move on.,...sorry for the mis-post...

I didn't see anything new in the 411 besides no concessions and the union will stand strong..... But it's always fun when we get a guys opinion based on threats from a CEO (nothing new there) and he basically tells us that the place is going downhill. If it was from anyone other than a union exec I'd chalk it up to nothing but an opinion, but when these guys start saying that stuff I automatically assume they have "inside" knowledge of what is going to happen but are bound not to say anything "factual". Just "it may happen"....

(Like how they were only 5 numbers off on the first furlough, even though the company could have technically furloughed 700 or so...) Makes me believe they sometimes know more than they let on.....:rolleyes:

Well I'm confused... Didn't I just read where your leadership was boasting 100's of millions in profits last Q?
Perhaps I am mistaken...??

Unfortunately, our current CEO thinks that NJ will be more profitable if it is smaller. I suspect that, long term, NJA will maintain a fleet of around 300 aircraft or so. No one knows for sure what will happen in the next 10 years but that seems to be the way things are going.

NJA made $207 mil 2010... They're telling us 2011 looks about the same, give or take a few...nothing spectacular, specially when you compare Netjets to other berkshire Hathaway branches, we're definetly the black sheep of the Berkshire family.

I don't see any growth at thiis place for a while... Netjets announced a $1.3 bil order for small Embraer jets and $2.7 bil for long-haul Bombardier jets, and supposely a medium jet order brewing, but that's replacements, not growth..

UCLA, from what you've seen, are most SICs actively seeking other opportunities? Just curious. I know if I was anywhere near the new bottom, I would be.

Not being a business man (obviously) I would think that net pre-tax profit of 200 million would still be considered pretty good. (atleast it wasn't a loss!)

Granted we're not in the billion dollar profit area that many of Berkshire's businesses are. But I wonder if WB ever really thought NJA was "that" kind of profitable company. He may have just liked the product and wanted to own it.... Some guys are naturally drawn to aviation and want to have their hand in it...He bought into USAir (***!!) lost big, vowed to never get into airline stocks again... And then a few years later was buying NJA for $700+ million.

Who the hell knows....Time will tell how much worse it may get....

I'm an F/O in the -IV.. I did not come across one single person, captain or F/O that was looking to leave NJI before the merger, NOT ONE. As far as great jobs go, NJI was it.. We (in the gulfstream fleet) have guys with seniority numbers at Delta, American, United, Continental that passed on re-call offers.. these days there's a lot of complaining about this, that, and the other, but that's about it.

the 2 most junior NJI hired G-V F/Os just left... They both wanted to stay but feared further cuts. One was about 20 from the bottom, the other about 30.

Not sure what's going on on the smaller fleets... there is very little movement to the larger fleets and no captain upgrades, so________?.

Attrition could be what DS is after also? Shrink by way of fear, reduce costs along the way....

There are so many variables in what is/could be attempted:rolleyes:

yes sir, agree. But if attrition is what DS is after, I am 100% positive it is the older senior captains he wishes would retire as they command a much higher salary, not the junior F/Os.... but yes I assume anybody leaving works for him...

I still think there will be VERY LILTTLE voluntary attition from the bottom, specially once the first Global hits the property. I'm sure many younger guys would like to stick around to fly those things... No idea what DS would do if very few leave voluntary..

and yes there are so many variables,

I'm usually a fairly optimistic person, but I have feeling that my NJA days are over. At this point, I don't think NJA will be able to provide the career that I thought when I came here. I should have stayed tight where I was (JB), valuable lesson learned in this business.

It's so sad what has happened. I know of folks that left great jobs to come here or passed on offers from places like DAL. Just goes to show what a gamble this industry is.

Note to self...quit trying to go work at "the best" companies.....

Tried the so called "best regional" at the time..

Went to a rinky dink outfit, which was awesome, except the feeling of not getting as far as I could in this career

Went to the "best" fractional.....

Should have just stayed at my rinky dink charter place when I had the chance. Would have made 25K less, but would still be employed, based at home, and gone maybe 5 nights a month....... I'm reafirming that I am not very bright sometimes....

I'm having a positive day....Nothing of importance will happen at NJA in the next few months..Stand by for next Fall

I know all of you NJ folks know what's going on, but some of us (maybe just me?) are somewhat lost. Are you suggesting NJ is getting ready to close shop??
If that's even a possibility I wonder what the furure is for CA. Our financials are somewhat under seal, but I'm certain we didn't have a $200M profit last year.

NJ is not going anywhere. However, the fractional model, overall, has peaked and I don't think the growth is going to be there to bring any of us furloughees back anytime soon. More furloughs are definitely possible as NJ downsizes and even after things stabilize, only the slow trickle of attrition will bring us back over a period of years. Who wants to wait around for that?

Of course, I hope I am way wrong on this, but I doubt it.

The "union" guy who has been talking about the company shrinking down to 250 to 300 aircraft is no longer part of the executive board. I'm not even sure he currently holds any position in the union other than general member. He claims he is getting his info from the former union head and then company president. I'm not sure what to believe or do.

I am an SIC who can survive one or two more rounds of furloughs if they keep the shrinking going. Unfortunately me and quite a few of the other SICs in my position don't have enough PIC to be competitive at most of the jobs that we would even want to consider. I haven't really heard many guys saying they are actively looking, but I know at least one guy who is probably going to go back to full time Air Force. I guess if there really is another round of furloughs there will be a lot more buzz for getting out. I also fully believe there will be a lot of pilots leaving once the flood gates open at the majors due to retirements in the next couple of years. For myself I am not planning on going to any other company if I can help it. The only place I would even really think about bailing for is Southwest due to their history of strong management. I came to NJA for the supposed security it offered. After two furloughs in 2001 I decided I could sacrifice some potential earnings at the majors for the security of Berkshire Hathaway. I guess I was wrong about that. I guess I won't be surprised if the company does shrink down to 300 or so airframes, but I do have a plan B if it all goes south and I can't get a descent pilot job relatively quickly. I just hope I don't have to exercise plan B or start over at the bottom somewhere else. Time will tell.

I had heard through the grapevine the 300 aircraft thing and it made sense to me. I don't have access to the big boy board anymore so I have no first hand knowledge of who said what.

I suspect no one knows what size NJA will be 10 yrs from now. The company may have an idea, but I'm sure the plan is flexible based on the economy. The recent purchase agreements have a lot of options for aircraft so it seems if the demand is there, the company will exercise them. I assume they will grow as long as there are buyers for the planes. I haven't heard much regarding sales recently.

His msg. board name still has "executive board" on it..... Must not have gotten around to changing it. Maybe that is why he hasn't been on our side of the board much. Only the all access section.. Could also be why he's a bit more bold in his predictions lately. And negative towards the outlook of the company...

that's probably it, some people are just miserable no matter what.

I doubt Embraer would've signed a $1.3 billion deal and Bombardier a $2.7 billion deal with the option to top $6 billion if they didn't think Netjets was going to be around to take deliveries of those airplanes.. For as long as there are wealthy people, executives and celebs looking for some privacy, Netjets will be around... What Netjets will look like in 10 years? who knows.

As for growth and re-calls, well I understand your frustation kingairfun. I seriously wish I had some good news for the furloughed guys...

I'm kind of on the same boat.... I really don't want to go anywhere else and I hope I don't have to. I'd like to think i'm done with the airlines...this is the best job I've ever had. I've done some interesting flying, few months back we shot an NDB approach into some little airport in Greenland, and we flew in from London. Can't do that with the airlines. Plus the bennies, haven't paid for an airline or hotel in years.

like you said, time will tell

Your story defines that of MANY at NJA. From start to finish. I feel pretty certain though that many at the bottom of the list are in full job search mode and that many will leave who get opportunities.