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Old 05-24-2014, 03:41 PM
  #351  
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Originally Posted by Smooth at FL450 View Post
Agree with CEFO in that your experiences are far from the norm. I'm not saying that you're making anything up, but your experiences here seem to represent an extreme. Did you utilize the ASAP program or HR to communicate your safety concerns or harassment issues? Seems you are a bit hypocritical tho if Captain Hangloose is who I think he is.

Regarding the credit card issue...I just don't get it. Any charge on that card posts to concur, so you'll see it in a matter of days. If there's a charge there that doesn't belong, send it to the CTC chargeback email that was created for just that reason. It's rare now that a hotel doesn't get cancelled and the charges push thru, but it's not hard to catch and fix. Not sure how you got so far behind that it went to collections, unless you just never looked at concur?

Happy for you that you've moved on to something you're happier with. Perhaps somewhere along the way you'll learn how to take some responsibility for your circumstances and stop blaming everyone else.
Ah see they just can't comment without a cheap shot. I've never blamed others for my problems. However I had never been this treated like this before or after and simply had to speak out about it. These things occurred not for lack of trying, aptitude or skill but because of those abusing the merit based upgrade system for personal reasons.

I did speak with HR and with several people about the way I was treated. It resulted in a day at MCC with no insight or any of the issues being resolved.

As for Captain Hangloose he had an admitted "poor bedside manner" and took an assignment as a training captain. Maybe you are confusing him with someone else? I don't understand how exactly I am being a hypocrite as I have never intentionally held anyone back in their career for personal reasons. Maybe you meant something else?

Never mind the many A level captains that absolutely refuse to write you a letter? Regardless of how hard you work for them they just won't do it? Why become a mentor captain then? This practice goes unchecked by the CPO. In addition all of these captains with the exception of one won't tell you until the rotation is over.

As for the CC. I cancelled the card. It was restarted without my knowledge or consent. I signed an agreement when I was hired but I cancelled the card which nullified that agreement. The card was reissued. Totally illegal. I never received a copy of the card or was notified. Dozens of hotel reservations were made but of course were not cancelled. I hope this answers your question: "Not sure how you got so far behind that it went to collections, unless you just never looked at concur?"

I told the absolute truth about where I am at now and what occurred at XOJET. This is information for those considering working there. Not for those already there. If you feel you should comment on it that is fair but I'd appreciate it if you would stop the personal attacks.
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Old 05-24-2014, 03:57 PM
  #352  
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It was simply a buyer beware post but you had to make it personal. Very typical.
I find this view point interesting.
It is OK for a pilot to come on and complain about an organization and give THEIR side of the drama, but if another pilot comes on and gives an opposing view then they are wrong?

Why is that?
Seems to happen all the time - especially when ex-employees complain and present employees have a different viewpoint.

Rarely does it seem that the pilots can agree that just maybe they had opposite experiences. One side always thinks they need to be deemed the *official* word.

For people considering whether to apply, interview, or accept employment as XOJet, I certainly hope that you do more due diligence then just reading forum posts!

Btw - I'm financially responsible for my gov't credit card too
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Old 05-24-2014, 04:09 PM
  #353  
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Originally Posted by CEFO View Post
Happy you moved on and that you are enjoying the new gig, especially seeing as this wasn't the place for you. Don't take what i said as an attack on you but more defending the co-workers that i enjoy working with. Where I take issue with is that most people who work at a place they don't like, tell their peers not to go to said company over a beer at the bar or a phone call/text message, not on a public forum. By doing this you hurt the chances of those who want to move on (Like those 15 guys who recommended you for upgrade, the people you helped get hired and the people you call friends) at some point by presenting the extreme specifics of your case as common practice. Move on professionally and gracefully. You're case is not the norm, not the first but not the norm.
Well consider it another downside of the merit based upgrade system. One that quite a few captains at XOJET should consider. I'm sure you have heard that aviation is a small world? That your copilot may be on the other side of the interview table? Message boards are all part of this. There are those who will never move on from XOJET to another company because of [email protected] but hey I had nothing to do with that.

Do unto others and all. I'm telling the truth. Buyer beware. Someone asked about FOs leaving en mass and I gave my very truthful opinion based on my experience. If it hurts someone's chances of getting hired all one must do is treat others respectfully going forward. Not attacking someone speaking out about the truth. If you are treating coworkers poorly or not helping them move on or intentionally hurting someones career then don't expect to get helped in the future. AKA the world is what you make of it.

For the record I left XOJET September 27th and was in class for the Falcon October 7th. Because I had taken the time to help and mentor others. Not treat people poorly to get ahead.

I don't know you and I'm not saying you have participated in anything like this. Again, I'm speaking out in order to help others that have many options where to hang their hat - other than responses asking me questions. I'm not trying to address anyone already on the property of XOJET.

Last edited by Jeff Spicoli; 05-24-2014 at 04:24 PM.
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Old 05-24-2014, 04:22 PM
  #354  
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Originally Posted by USMCFLYR View Post
I find this view point interesting.
It is OK for a pilot to come on and complain about an organization and give THEIR side of the drama, but if another pilot comes on and gives an opposing view then they are wrong?

Why is that?
Seems to happen all the time - especially when ex-employees complain and present employees have a different viewpoint.

Rarely does it seem that the pilots can agree that just maybe they had opposite experiences. One side always thinks they need to be deemed the *official* word.

For people considering whether to apply, interview, or accept employment as XOJet, I certainly hope that you do more due diligence then just reading forum posts!

Btw - I'm financially responsible for my gov't credit card too
I told others who were interested in XOJET that they should use caution. So far 2 XO employees have told me that I should stop blaming others and that my ability is in question.

They didn't give an example of a positive change or new policy, nor have they shown how I have been "wrong". They said it would be hurting others trying to move on. I think that is very telling.

In addition you may want to re read my statement on the credit card. The card was cancelled and was illegally reissued without my consent or knowledge.
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Old 05-24-2014, 04:45 PM
  #355  
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LOL speaking of cheapshots

It is what you make of it. Everyone is different. Some things are better just not posted on the Internet as gospel if what it really is, is an opinion with associated dramatics.
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Old 05-24-2014, 04:46 PM
  #356  
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Spicoli,

I know you. We've met but never flown together. I understand how you must feel about YOUR experiences. But, what you claim as "truth" are exaggeration at best.... And likely your opinion. You are totally entitled to it...just remember what "they" say about opinions.

Let's be straight. There has been good times and bad at XO. There has been times when the morale was rock bottom. Find a job or company where this has never been the case. Arguably, things have progressed on many fronts in the last 18 mos, even since you left. Now, don't interpret this as a dig against you but things have changed for the better since you've left....partially because you left.
You (in part) created a vacancy that has made some new Captains and new hires. So on their behalf, thank you.

At the extreme risk of sounding existential...I believe that much of what makes us (people, pilots...whoever) successful is much the same thing that dictates a safe flight. Attitude and approach: it's true that you can walk away from a flight that had poor attitude control and botched the approach, but it ain't usually pretty. I'm sure you'd agree that the longevity of our lives and careers depend on how well we exercise good judgment, keep the dirty side down and don't go all "cowboy".
Spicoli, as a casual observer...one who specifically registered today to address you due to the one-dimensional nature of your rant...I would like to say that you should consider your attitude and approach.

Spicoli, of course in a pilot group of any decent size there are gonna be a turd bucket or two...hell...let's say 5-10 percent.
They are not all A-Captains...I'm pretty sure of that.

Many folks, even a bunch you worked with here at XO...served this nation and in some way helped defend the rights that you so clearly enjoy. You are entitled to write everything you did. As am I.

To the followers of this thread, at large:

Where there is smoke there is fire. Some individuals do not possess the interpersonal skills to operate smoothly in society, let alone a cockpit. As I mentioned earlier, I never flew with Spicoli. But as I write this I'm trying to think of one good thing, I've heard...

I hear he rips on Mountain Bikes.

That's it, I think.

Spicoli, I'm happy you are happy at your new gig. If you're happy, I'm happy...we all are bit happier. But please if you are going to go on a loooong rant, please be a bit more cognizant of truth v. opinion and a shooting for a socially acceptable level of reality.

XOJET is not perfect. It's not as bad as Spicoli opines. It's a job, it scratches an itch and it is what you make of it. For some it is a stepping stone, for others, the last stop. We'd like to keep the joint free of bad attitudes and miserable approaches, with our jets and the ones who crew them.
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Old 05-24-2014, 05:06 PM
  #357  
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I mentioned the personal attacks would come. No one will address the problems with operations, safety, etc. They just circle the wagons and take pot shots. The latest bringing my sanity into question. All the while I was recommended for a great job less than a few hours after I gave up on XO and hired that day.

Negative feedback is not given to the pilot in question and captains can hide behind a veil of anonymity. It is the same as the internet. These guys can personally attack my flying skill and even my sanity. Even make a new account on this message board to do so. But they will not address the issues regarding safety, or financial protection, or any of the other issues that I bring up.

Buyer beware. I won't respond to a XO employee again.
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Old 05-24-2014, 06:50 PM
  #358  
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I'm an XOJet employee too. I never have flown with you Spicoli.
First off, I'm glad you found a job you're happy at. Isn't that what we all want?
I can only speak to my own experiences:
I have never ever once been forced to do something I have found unsafe. For the record I HAVE spoken up and voiced that I felt something was not safe, and have realized ZERO repercussions from speaking up. I was tactful and professional about it: "I'm not exactly sure that's in the best interests of safety, given XYZ, is there an alternative that we can do?" In my career I have known people who have been less than professional when asked to do something that they feel is unsafe: "That's bullsh*t, I'm not f*ckin' doing it" That kind of attitude usually doesn't help your cause. Also, let's be honest, being asked to do a repo at the end of a red-eye isn't AUTOMATICALLY a "f*ck you that's unsafe" request. Maybe you and the other pilot are feeling good and can do a short repo. We're professionals. We need to evaluate all the pertinent info and make a rational decision. If your not good to go, a simple "ya know, I'm up all night, I'm struggling to stay alert, I don't think it's the safest thing right now" would do.
As far as being worked to death, the FAA duty and rest time limits observed, the company can fly you and have you on duty as much or as little as they want as long as it complies with regs. That's what they hire us for... to fly. They don't owe us days off on the road. Some people love jobs where they work and fly as little as possible. If that's you, then this job isn't for you. Personally, I like to be kept busy, because FOR ME, it makes the time go by quicker until my days off.
As far as problems with credit cards go, I can only say I've never had a problem. Ever. Sure there have been a few un-cancelled hotels, so I just send them back to the "chargeback" email and have never had to shell out 1 unreimbursed penny for the company. Ever.
As for the other charges that you have levied, Spicoli, I can only speak to my experiences, but they are drastically different than yours.
I HAVE bailed on the "pack dinners" in VNY before, and I HAVE been in a slam-click mood at times. We all have. I doubt anyone spoke negatively of me (and even if they did, I couldn't care less). I have flown with captains and FO's that I wouldn't necessarily like to hang out with outside of work, but I try to be agreeable and friendly. There's a saying "you've got to go along, to get along" I've never found anyone to be vengeful, or all high and mighty.
I feel Spicoli, like your experience at XOJet, may be partially the result of the attitude you bring to the table. If you're always looking for problems, always have a chip on your shoulder, and have unrealistic expectations about the job, then problems, confrontation and misery you will find. Again, I'm glad you found a job that better suits you. I'd rather work with people who want to be here, or at least can enjoy their time here until they move on.
Is everything sunshine and rainbows at XOJet? No way. The pay could be better, the days off could be better, they could be less "corporate" and more personal. The list goes on, but at the same time it's not a horrible place to work. I should know, I HAVE worked for a bottom of the barrel 135 operator before, and XOJet is leaps and bounds above them.
Spicoli, the hyperbole, exaggeration and 1/2 truths that you use to speak if your experiences here, lead me to believe that it's more YOU than XOJet that's the problem, and I'm calling you out for that. Why can't you just move on? Why are you STILL talkin' about this place? Want people to know your "truth" about XOJet? Save it for someone who asks you in person. To me, it's reminiscent of a guy that breaks up with a girl, and can't stop talking about her months later and spreads "so and so is a *****" rumors all throughout school. Grow up, move on, and enjoy your new job. We're all happy for you and happy you left.
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Old 05-24-2014, 07:39 PM
  #359  
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Originally Posted by Jeff Spicoli View Post
I told others who were interested in XOJET that they should use caution. So far 2 XO employees have told me that I should stop blaming others and that my ability is in question.

They didn't give an example of a positive change or new policy, nor have they shown how I have been "wrong". They said it would be hurting others trying to move on. I think that is very telling.

In addition you may want to re read my statement on the credit card. The card was cancelled and was illegally reissued without my consent or knowledge.
You can make what you want of it.
As an outsider looking in on the thread - I see an employee who seemed to not have enjoyed his time at the company. He uses examples of instances that may or may not be wholly factual. You know - that whole 'that is one side of the story thing'. If others came on and gave other opinions or even said that you were spreading lies - you would tell others that they weren't being truthful and that you - and only you - are telling the truth on this forum. You expect ME to believe YOU - - - and why I ask.

I don't know you. You don't know me.
All I know is that you had problems with XOJet and others have not.

How do I know that what you claim the company did with the credit card by reinstating it was illegal? I for one certainly didn't read the small print very closely on any such contract. It is a company card right? Can they take away your credit card? If so...why can they reactivate it? I was using my card as an example. It has my name on it. I am financially responsible for it. But I certainly have a plethora of rules to follow and they can cancel my card at any time. Who is to say that they couldn't reissue it if I tried to cancel it?

Can you prove it was an illegal action? If so...get off the forums and contact a lawyer and sue the company.

You still didn't really address the question why a prospective employee should heed your warnings as a better representation of the company rather than other poster's opinion who might have had a better experience with the same company. Are you stating that your experiences are a majority of the rule at XOJet?

Update:
Now that I've read how some others have approached your post and then your responses (it seem if anyone disagrees with you that it gets labeled a personal attack = RED FLAG!), I can certainly say that from someone who might have applied to XOJet at one time that I would view your *opinion* has jaded; possibly for good reason - and possibly an opinion not worthy of consideration.

At my job - we had a very disgruntled employee leave the job sometime ago. He was a trouble maker all the way around. To management, to other employees, in the airplane and on the job. I imagine he could come on a forum such as this and write a particularly long rant too. Some of the things that he would be likely to complain about would be partially based in truth, and the same things that many of us would complain about. The problem is that he would take the common and understandable issues and make them his own (think black hats are coming to get me type of stuff) with some extra flare and without any consideration to the *other side* of the coin. I get the feeling that this is what is happening here and I find it "to be very telling".

Rarely is any job all bad or all good.
One group comes on and said that not everything is bad and there is some good, but things can always get better and there are pros and cons. Another poster comes on and only relays the bad and seems to be trying to pass off his own *bad* experiences as the norm and won't/can't even admit that there must have been some good times if he stayed with the company for 3 years.

As TripleLindy said to the at large readers of this thread - - - consider the source and the approach.
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Old 05-24-2014, 07:49 PM
  #360  
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Originally Posted by USMCFLYR View Post
You can make what you want of it.
As an outsider looking in on the thread - I see an employee who seemed to not have enjoyed his time at the company. He uses examples of instances that may or may not be wholly factual. You know - that whole 'that is one side of the story thing'. If others came on and gave other opinions or even said that you were spreading lies - you would tell others that they weren't being truthful and that you - and only you - are telling the truth on this forum. You expect ME to believe YOU - - - and why I ask.

I don't know you. You don't know me.
All I know is that you had problems with XOJet and others have not.

How do I know that what you claim the company did with the credit card by reinstating it was illegal? I for one certainly didn't read the small print very closely on any such contract. It is a company card right? Can they take away your credit card? If so...why can they reactivate it? I was using my card as an example. It has my name on it. I am financially responsible for it. But I certainly have a plethora of rules to follow and they can cancel my card at any time. Who is to say that they couldn't reissue it if I tried to cancel it?

Can you prove it was an illegal action? If so...get off the forums and contact a lawyer and sue the company.

You still didn't really address the question why a prospective employee should heed your warnings as a better representation of the company rather than other poster's opinion who might have had a better experience with the same company. Are you stating that your experiences are a majority of the rule at XOJet?

Update:
Now that I've read how some others have approached your post and then your responses (it seem if anyone disagrees with you that it gets labeled a personal attack = RED FLAG!), I can certainly say that from someone who might have applied to XOJet at one time that I would view your *opinion* has jaded; possibly for good reason - and possibly an opinion not worthy of consideration.

At my job - we had a very disgruntled employee leave the job sometime ago. He was a trouble maker all the way around. To management, to other employees, in the airplane and on the job. I imagine he could come on a forum such as this and write a particularly long rant too. Some of the things that he would be likely to complain about would be partially based in truth, and the same things that many of us would complain about. The problem is that he would take the common and understandable issues and make them his own (think black hats are coming to get me type of stuff) with some extra flare and without any consideration to the *other side* of the coin. I get the feeling that this is what is happening here and I find it "to be very telling".

Rarely is any job all bad or all good.
One group comes on and said that not everything is bad and there is some good, but things can always get better and there are pros and cons. Another poster comes on and only relays the bad and seems to be trying to pass off his own *bad* experiences as the norm and won't/can't even admit that there must have been some good times if he stayed with the company for 3 years.

As TripleLindy said to the at large readers of this thread - - - consider the source and the approach.
Just curious if you missed this?:

Originally Posted by FAAFlyer View Post
Great job explaining what XOJet is like.

I was at XOJet from early 2007 to December 2008. There was a big need for experienced C-750 pilots at the time. I helped XOJet find experienced C-750 pilots in early 2007. I had been with Swift for about 7 years at that time. XO was great in the beginning.

I even gave up my position at USAir (AWA guy) to stay at XOJet. That was at the behest of the former DO and CP who have since left I believe.

Anyways, I saw the beginnings of what Specoli alluded to in his posts. It was very political and some of the airman-ship was questionable from the "upper-pilots". I had one super-senior guy almost take us off the end of a runway in MOU. That was exciting. It wasn't long after XO crashed the Falcon in RIL.

I tried to tell several people there that "rolling-rest" is illegal. They didn't want to hear that. It was illegal when I was there and it remains illegal today. I am not sure if they still utilize "rolling-rest" but it wouldn't surprise me.

Anyways, great post Spicoli!
Anyhoo...
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