Netjets latest & greatest:
02-20-2017, 05:09 PM
#1691
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,919
If NetJets was a business that loved money they would have diversified like everyone else post recession. Everyone else is killing it, NetJets is just staying afloat. All the airlines have recovered, expanding, they have great contracts. Multiple private jet companies are reinventing, expanding and taking our market share. We are bleeding market share in almost every other country, and we are barely hanging on in the US. That is from the horses mouth in recurrent.
Again, this is not assumption, or wanting NetJets to fail. This is what is coming from the horses mouth right now, and it backs up lots of signs that we can track daily regarding the state of this company.
Again, this is not assumption, or wanting NetJets to fail. This is what is coming from the horses mouth right now, and it backs up lots of signs that we can track daily regarding the state of this company.
02-20-2017, 05:27 PM
#1692
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 466
Originally Posted by Jetlife
If NetJets was a business that loved money they would have diversified like everyone else post recession. Everyone else is killing it, NetJets is just staying afloat. All the airlines have recovered, expanding, they have great contracts. Multiple private jet companies are reinventing, expanding and taking our market share. We are bleeding market share in almost every other country, and we are barely hanging on in the US. That is from the horses mouth in recurrent.
Again, this is not assumption, or wanting NetJets to fail. This is what is coming from the horses mouth right now, and it backs up lots of signs that we can track daily regarding the state of this company.
Again, this is not assumption, or wanting NetJets to fail. This is what is coming from the horses mouth right now, and it backs up lots of signs that we can track daily regarding the state of this company.
We must be going to completely separate recurrent training events then.
We'll do just fine. Our problems were simply larger and took longer to fix.
And now we wait and see.
Don't believe me? You don't need to. Your time here is getting short. Why even be so vocal any longer? Some underlying feeling that maybe you aren't sure the move is the correct one?
It's a big move.
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02-20-2017, 06:22 PM
#1693
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,919
Nobody can predict the future, but the known quantity right now at NetJets is one that a lot of its pilots are not willing to accept. Am I sure about my move? Absolutely sure I want to make the move, 100%. Am I sure it will pay off? No I'm not. Are you sure you won't be dumped on the street at 55 with no flying job? Absolutely not. You said it yourself, there is an alarming number of PRIA requests, that isn't because everyone is happy with the way NetJets is looking for the future. It absolutely is not short sided to leave NetJets for a company better suited for an FO. Even with the first year loss I will make more money year 3 at my new company and that is counting the almost 50% pay cut for year one, making it back and then being in the black. Why would I not do that when you consider all the other benefits?
To anyone with a career ahead, a bold move is coming to NetJets given that upgrades are 12+ years out, no expansion is planned (that's a true statement, there is no growth plan for this company. No 5 or 10 year plans for this company have been shown or verbalized with any legitimate roadmap for expansion, again that's another fact) and the only words uttered about expansion have been "yea we will expand in several years probably."
This company has zero focus, absolutely zero. Doesn't mean there aren't benefits but you have to understand the position of a new hire and what it means to be a new hire right now. You caught the NetJets wave and missed the 121 wave, you cannot fault those who missed the NetJets wave and are jumping on the 121 wave.
You feel Kit Darby lied to you and that has soured you on any idea of the 121 industry as a career. You were also unfortunately put on the street and only had NetJets to turn to for employment, and it happened to pay off years later, I get that, I understand that, I respect that. But please try and understand the reality right now. I'm hopeful things change at NetJets too. I have lots of friends here including you. I hope it gets better for everyone here, but the FOs here got the shaft, and without an IBB (not gonna happen) the pay is status quo for another 8 years. The moral has already fallen close to where it was when I got here. 8 years is along way to go at this rate.
To anyone with a career ahead, a bold move is coming to NetJets given that upgrades are 12+ years out, no expansion is planned (that's a true statement, there is no growth plan for this company. No 5 or 10 year plans for this company have been shown or verbalized with any legitimate roadmap for expansion, again that's another fact) and the only words uttered about expansion have been "yea we will expand in several years probably."
This company has zero focus, absolutely zero. Doesn't mean there aren't benefits but you have to understand the position of a new hire and what it means to be a new hire right now. You caught the NetJets wave and missed the 121 wave, you cannot fault those who missed the NetJets wave and are jumping on the 121 wave.
You feel Kit Darby lied to you and that has soured you on any idea of the 121 industry as a career. You were also unfortunately put on the street and only had NetJets to turn to for employment, and it happened to pay off years later, I get that, I understand that, I respect that. But please try and understand the reality right now. I'm hopeful things change at NetJets too. I have lots of friends here including you. I hope it gets better for everyone here, but the FOs here got the shaft, and without an IBB (not gonna happen) the pay is status quo for another 8 years. The moral has already fallen close to where it was when I got here. 8 years is along way to go at this rate.
02-20-2017, 06:38 PM
#1694
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Posts: 166
"No Growth for 5 Years" does not mean "growth at year 6".
Again...NetJets hasn't announced any plans for growth. Berkshire hasn't announced they are going to be writing any checks for NetJets. In fact, BH is investing billions in other airlines that (while not providing the same service) are direct competitors to NetJets.
(source: Why Warren Buffett is investing in US airlines - Business Insider)
When all the sims are moved from Hamilton to the new facility, how much square footage will be remaining for additional sims for the "year 6 growth" of additional airframes and crews?
What statement(s) from management would lead one to believe that there is any growth planned? Does the sales team have a stack of future owners just waiting for NetJets to fix its fleet issues and will then be buying into programs? How are we just putting these owners on ice and stopping them from signing on with a competitor?
But no, we should just read between the lines and see that NetJets is stacking the deck to crush the rest of the fractional/charter industry in one fell swoop in 2.7 years.
It is our lack of business acumen that prevents us from seeing NetJets, through 10 years of stagnation, furloughs, and mismanagement has the rest of the industry right where they want it.
Again...NetJets hasn't announced any plans for growth. Berkshire hasn't announced they are going to be writing any checks for NetJets. In fact, BH is investing billions in other airlines that (while not providing the same service) are direct competitors to NetJets.
(source: Why Warren Buffett is investing in US airlines - Business Insider)
When all the sims are moved from Hamilton to the new facility, how much square footage will be remaining for additional sims for the "year 6 growth" of additional airframes and crews?
What statement(s) from management would lead one to believe that there is any growth planned? Does the sales team have a stack of future owners just waiting for NetJets to fix its fleet issues and will then be buying into programs? How are we just putting these owners on ice and stopping them from signing on with a competitor?
But no, we should just read between the lines and see that NetJets is stacking the deck to crush the rest of the fractional/charter industry in one fell swoop in 2.7 years.
It is our lack of business acumen that prevents us from seeing NetJets, through 10 years of stagnation, furloughs, and mismanagement has the rest of the industry right where they want it.
02-21-2017, 01:45 AM
#1695
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 466
Netjets latest & greatest:
Originally Posted by pugpilot
"No Growth for 5 Years" does not mean "growth at year 6".
Again...NetJets hasn't announced any plans for growth. Berkshire hasn't announced they are going to be writing any checks for NetJets. In fact, BH is investing billions in other airlines that (while not providing the same service) are direct competitors to NetJets.
(source: Why Warren Buffett is investing in US airlines - Business Insider)
When all the sims are moved from Hamilton to the new facility, how much square footage will be remaining for additional sims for the "year 6 growth" of additional airframes and crews?
What statement(s) from management would lead one to believe that there is any growth planned? Does the sales team have a stack of future owners just waiting for NetJets to fix its fleet issues and will then be buying into programs? How are we just putting these owners on ice and stopping them from signing on with a competitor?
But no, we should just read between the lines and see that NetJets is stacking the deck to crush the rest of the fractional/charter industry in one fell swoop in 2.7 years.
It is our lack of business acumen that prevents us from seeing NetJets, through 10 years of stagnation, furloughs, and mismanagement has the rest of the industry right where they want it.
Again...NetJets hasn't announced any plans for growth. Berkshire hasn't announced they are going to be writing any checks for NetJets. In fact, BH is investing billions in other airlines that (while not providing the same service) are direct competitors to NetJets.
(source: Why Warren Buffett is investing in US airlines - Business Insider)
When all the sims are moved from Hamilton to the new facility, how much square footage will be remaining for additional sims for the "year 6 growth" of additional airframes and crews?
What statement(s) from management would lead one to believe that there is any growth planned? Does the sales team have a stack of future owners just waiting for NetJets to fix its fleet issues and will then be buying into programs? How are we just putting these owners on ice and stopping them from signing on with a competitor?
But no, we should just read between the lines and see that NetJets is stacking the deck to crush the rest of the fractional/charter industry in one fell swoop in 2.7 years.
It is our lack of business acumen that prevents us from seeing NetJets, through 10 years of stagnation, furloughs, and mismanagement has the rest of the industry right where they want it.
Why is it logical that BRK needs to write checks in order for NJA to grow after fleet replacement is complete?
Remember the amount borrowed in 2010? Yeah. That's a line of credit and it's paid off.
Check written. As in "still available".
Then the jets sell.
Check repaid.
Why is this so hard guys?
The rest of of your arguments are emotional and fear driven.
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02-21-2017, 04:33 AM
#1696
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,919
Your arguement stems from pure assumption. There's no fear about where we're coming from. You keep mentioning things that any company could easily plan for and announce. Don't you think it would behoove the company to try and increase moral with a plan for future growth? "Plan is to get the fleet replaced, grow by 100 airframes in 2023 and hire 600 more pilots." Don't you think that would be huge for moral? Why has there been literally no talk of a plan? Because there isn't one. This management is winging it. There literally is not path or plan they are following, no vision. This is clearly evidenced by us offering the same product while everyone else around us changes. That reality cannot be ignored.
At the end of the day everyone should be a little fearful of the future. You're hopeful and that's great but you're making associations about the company based on hope and ignoring the reality. You're projecting what you would do if you were in charge of NetJets, not what they have announced...
At the end of the day everyone should be a little fearful of the future. You're hopeful and that's great but you're making associations about the company based on hope and ignoring the reality. You're projecting what you would do if you were in charge of NetJets, not what they have announced...
02-21-2017, 08:08 AM
#1697
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 466
Netjets latest & greatest:
Originally Posted by Jetlife
Your arguement stems from pure assumption. There's no fear about where we're coming from. You keep mentioning things that any company could easily plan for and announce. Don't you think it would behoove the company to try and increase moral with a plan for future growth? "Plan is to get the fleet replaced, grow by 100 airframes in 2023 and hire 600 more pilots." Don't you think that would be huge for moral? Why has there been literally no talk of a plan? Because there isn't one. This management is winging it. There literally is not path or plan they are following, no vision. This is clearly evidenced by us offering the same product while everyone else around us changes. That reality cannot be ignored.
At the end of the day everyone should be a little fearful of the future. You're hopeful and that's great but you're making associations about the company based on hope and ignoring the reality. You're projecting what you would do if you were in charge of NetJets, not what they have announced...
At the end of the day everyone should be a little fearful of the future. You're hopeful and that's great but you're making associations about the company based on hope and ignoring the reality. You're projecting what you would do if you were in charge of NetJets, not what they have announced...
Nothing in this business will ever be announced ahead of necessity. Competition is too annoying if we do.
Look.
You've been here long enough to know if it's for you. NJA is far from a failing company... I've been at a failing company. This isn't it. Profits are solid. Sales are strong.
Training departments/equipment and fleets are in the process of retooling. In about 2.5-3 years, fleet replacement will conclude and growth should resume at some point following a nasty toxic mess that many left us in years ago.
Business isn't always as fast as pilots would like. Flying is immediate. Flick switch, see result. Business takes years.
If you don't like that reality, you'll never be successful at business. If NJAs business plan isn't working for you as one of its employees, well fine. They never promised it would. They set the currents, you tack your sails. That's the deal as an employee.
There are many on these boards that have run from catastrophe to rumor to Mase up FAKE NEWS realities. They don't do their homework. They don't ask questions. They don't read into what's said vs the actions being implemented all around them.
Those types are never going to be happy.
Please... learn to push your peripheral of information gathering and realize that just because you're ready to grow, NJA isn't. "Plane" and simple.
It will come however.
Nobody ever gets excited about the foundation of a house being built. It takes a while to do it correctly and it's the single most important step in construction. Please don't get so excited about cabinets and curtains just yet. We aren't there.
https://youtu.be/NO04VXBIS0M
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02-21-2017, 09:21 AM
#1698
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2016
Posts: 110
SDP? Well that explains the hard 180 BEFORE the vote. I knew there was something behind it. Selling out your brothers...... not cool.
I wouldn't believe one word he says. **
I wouldn't believe one word he says. **
Last edited by UAL T38 Phlyer; 02-24-2017 at 06:22 PM. Reason: TOU
02-21-2017, 10:49 AM
#1699
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: A320
Posts: 132
Originally Posted by FLYLOW22
Nothing in this business will ever be announced ahead of necessity. Competition is too annoying if we do.
Look.
You've been here long enough to know if it's for you. NJA is far from a failing company... I've been at a failing company. This isn't it. Profits are solid. Sales are strong.
Training departments/equipment and fleets are in the process of retooling. In about 2.5-3 years, fleet replacement will conclude and growth should resume at some point following a nasty toxic mess that many left us in years ago.
Business isn't always as fast as pilots would like. Flying is immediate. Flick switch, see result. Business takes years.
If you don't like that reality, you'll never be successful at business. If NJAs business plan isn't working for you as one of its employees, well fine. They never promised it would. They set the currents, you tack your sails. That's the deal as an employee.
There are many on these boards that have run from catastrophe to rumor to Mase up FAKE NEWS realities. They don't do their homework. They don't ask questions. They don't read into what's said vs the actions being implemented all around them.
Those types are never going to be happy.
Please... learn to push your peripheral of information gathering and realize that just because you're ready to grow, NJA isn't. "Plane" and simple.
It will come however.
Nobody ever gets excited about the foundation of a house being built. It takes a while to do it correctly and it's the single most important step in construction. Please don't get so excited about cabinets and curtains just yet. We aren't there.
https://youtu.be/NO04VXBIS0M
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Look.
You've been here long enough to know if it's for you. NJA is far from a failing company... I've been at a failing company. This isn't it. Profits are solid. Sales are strong.
Training departments/equipment and fleets are in the process of retooling. In about 2.5-3 years, fleet replacement will conclude and growth should resume at some point following a nasty toxic mess that many left us in years ago.
Business isn't always as fast as pilots would like. Flying is immediate. Flick switch, see result. Business takes years.
If you don't like that reality, you'll never be successful at business. If NJAs business plan isn't working for you as one of its employees, well fine. They never promised it would. They set the currents, you tack your sails. That's the deal as an employee.
There are many on these boards that have run from catastrophe to rumor to Mase up FAKE NEWS realities. They don't do their homework. They don't ask questions. They don't read into what's said vs the actions being implemented all around them.
Those types are never going to be happy.
Please... learn to push your peripheral of information gathering and realize that just because you're ready to grow, NJA isn't. "Plane" and simple.
It will come however.
Nobody ever gets excited about the foundation of a house being built. It takes a while to do it correctly and it's the single most important step in construction. Please don't get so excited about cabinets and curtains just yet. We aren't there.
https://youtu.be/NO04VXBIS0M
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Introducing my "10 Steps to NuttyJets Nirvana"
Step 1: Never admit that you might possibly be wrong. About anything. Ever.
Step 2: Repeat step 1.
Step 3: Insert Balloons and Ponies emojis.
Step 4: Pretend to know what the future holds.
Step 5: Insert master business acumen.
Step 6: Explain master business acumen in condescending manner because of your "many personally owned businesses."
Step 7: Insert annoyingly stupid analogies and metaphors to kick up the condescension a notch.
Step 8: Make sure there are plenty of lines between your steps for dramatic effect.
Step 9: Insert click bait.
Step 10: Spread gospel across multiple forums.
Did I miss anything? Oh yeah...ensure you have the last word by posting your steps more than anyone else.
02-21-2017, 10:51 AM
#1700
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2014
Posts: 162
Originally Posted by givememywings
Introducing my "10 Steps to NuttyJets Nirvana"
Step 1: Never admit that you might possibly be wrong. About anything. Ever.
Step 2: Repeat step 1.
Step 3: Insert Balloons and Ponies emojis.
Step 4: Pretend to know what the future holds.
Step 5: Insert master business acumen.
Step 6: Explain master business acumen in condescending manner because of your "many personally owned businesses."
Step 7: Insert annoyingly stupid analogies and metaphors to kick up the condescension a notch.
Step 8: Make sure there are plenty of lines between your steps for dramatic effect.
Step 9: Insert click bait.
Step 10: Spread gospel across multiple forums.
Did I miss anything? Oh yeah...ensure you have the last word by posting your steps more than anyone else.
Step 1: Never admit that you might possibly be wrong. About anything. Ever.
Step 2: Repeat step 1.
Step 3: Insert Balloons and Ponies emojis.
Step 4: Pretend to know what the future holds.
Step 5: Insert master business acumen.
Step 6: Explain master business acumen in condescending manner because of your "many personally owned businesses."
Step 7: Insert annoyingly stupid analogies and metaphors to kick up the condescension a notch.
Step 8: Make sure there are plenty of lines between your steps for dramatic effect.
Step 9: Insert click bait.
Step 10: Spread gospel across multiple forums.
Did I miss anything? Oh yeah...ensure you have the last word by posting your steps more than anyone else.
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