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01-16-2014, 10:05 AM

#31

mooneymite

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Joined APC: Dec 2005

Position: FE, FO, CAPT.

Posts: 200

Quote:

Originally Posted by Packrat

I guess the upgrade time at NJ is pretty significant if you've had guys on the street for 4 years. What was it before that?

I think most of the SIC's who were not furloughed were told "less than 2 years" by Derinda.

That was 8 years ago, when a captain with 6 years was considered "senior"!

The only hope the bottom guys have for up-grade is attrition....generally the pilot group is young and there is no "age 65" rule to push 'em out.

Chances are, any furloughee who comes back won't be getting any PIC time for many years.

01-16-2014, 10:13 AM

#32

Packrat

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Joined APC: Nov 2013

Position: 7th green

Posts: 4,378

Anyone know the net gain in airframes IF all the ordered airplanes are delivered? That may have an effect on upgrade time.

Why would a young guy go to the fractionals if the change of getting PIC time quickly is so remote?

01-16-2014, 10:45 AM

#33

mooneymite

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Joined APC: Dec 2005

Position: FE, FO, CAPT.

Posts: 200

Quote:

Originally Posted by Packrat

Sounds like the majority of the planes on order are "replacement", not growth. NetJets has a lot of high-time jets that are flat worn-out. NetJets' airframe availability is downright awful on certain days.

Lots of pilots are attracted to NJA for the twin-turbine time, but it is only a step on the way somewhere else. The lack of "somewhere else" the last 6 years is why NJA's retention has been as good as it is.

If airline hiring really gets humping, NetJets will go back to hiring anyone who can fog a mirror.

01-16-2014, 11:30 AM

#34

UCLAbruins

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Joined APC: Apr 2007

Position: F/O- G-V/550

Posts: 1,163

Quote:

Originally Posted by mooneymite

Wow. I've seen ignorant posts here but this one takes the cake

In my 10 year career at netjets, i've flown with about 15 guys that were furloughed by a major. 4 went back, the rest are staying, myself included

01-16-2014, 11:49 AM

#35

Packrat

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Joined APC: Nov 2013

Position: 7th green

Posts: 4,378

Quote:

Originally Posted by mooneymite

If airline hiring really gets humping, NetJets will go back to hiring anyone who can fog a mirror.

I'm wondering if that will include the guys who age out of the airlines at 65. Several years ago, I knew guys who aged out at 60 and got on with NJ. They both loved it. However, there is a big difference between getting hired at 60 and getting hired at 65.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UCLAbruins

In my 10 year career at netjets, i've flown with about 15 guys that were furloughed by a major. 4 went back, the rest are staying, myself included

Once you get furloughed, you must feel betrayed by the "airline dream." I'm not so sure if that hadn't happened to me and NJ offered me a safe haven, I wouldn't make the same decision you did.

01-16-2014, 11:57 AM

#36

mooneymite

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Joined APC: Dec 2005

Position: FE, FO, CAPT.

Posts: 200

Quote:

Originally Posted by UCLAbruins

In my 10 year career at netjets, i've flown with about 15 guys that were furloughed by a major. 4 went back, the rest are staying, myself included

You were fortunate you weren't furloughed from NetJets!

Different strokes, for different folk.

I've done both...for me, the 121 world is far better. Glad you like the fractional world.

01-16-2014, 12:04 PM

#37

mooneymite

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Joined APC: Dec 2005

Position: FE, FO, CAPT.

Posts: 200

Quote:

Originally Posted by Packrat

.... I'm not so sure if that hadn't happened to me and NJ offered me a safe haven, I wouldn't make the same decision you did.

This "safe haven" by NetJets? Explain that to me.

I'm not aware of a "safe haven" in the aviation world unless it is in airport construction. In the old days, there were a few airlines that wouldn't furlough pilots, but not any more. The fractionals sure have no compunction!

01-16-2014, 01:08 PM

#38

kingairfun

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Joined APC: Oct 2010

Posts: 1,222

It's quite simple

SIC:

pre recession (2007-late 2009) NJA was generally better tha being at a 121 carrier as a SIC.
Post recession. Legacies offer a far greater employemnt opportunity. While advancement at NJA is completely stagnant.

PIC:

pre recession (2001-early 2009) NJA wins hands down.
Post recession. Depending on age, Legacies may offer better long term employement opportunities. Unfortunately NJA PIC's may have the golden handcuffs firmly attached...

Neither option is a bad deal. Definitely better than working at a regional or some crappy 135 outfit. Post recession NJA has gone downhill while the Legacies have had a meteoric rise as of late. Talking with the wife, the only reason NJA would have been an option to return to is the home basing.( I resigned seniority # years ago, but always will wonder how well that decision will pan out) Other than that, Legacy flying, schedule and pay, wins hands down. I bid reserve part of the year, work appr. 6 days a month on reserve and make more than I ever would as an SIC at NJA. (For now, in about 10 years it could all turn around again!!!!)

NJA isn't a bad deal, just not as good as it once was or could have still been if WB and DS hadn't f$cked it up so badly after 2010.

01-16-2014, 01:42 PM

#39

mooneymite

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Joined APC: Dec 2005

Position: FE, FO, CAPT.

Posts: 200

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingairfun

NJA isn't a bad deal, just not as good as it once was or could have still been if WB and DS hadn't f$cked it up so badly after 2010.

I hear you! That's for sure.

I'm not sure how much insight the captains with the golden handcuffs have into how the 7-8 year SIC's view the future....or lack thereof.