Frontier Negotiations Discussion
#811
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 464
#812
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: Bus CA
Posts: 658
Macjet could have at least used somewhat accurate fleet numbers to make that illogical argument. A fact finding mission is about 5 seconds away on a Google and Wikipedia search. I guess 60 versus 112 sounds better than 78 versus 112, it really makes the argument. Neither one of our Ultra Low Class airlines are a good place to work. Those of us who are stuck here (at F9) until we’re in a new hire class at a respectable company will do our best to make this place better for our pilot group. We don’t need pilots from another airline ringing the bell before our fight is over. Macjet is about to be put on my GFY list.
#813
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: Airbus (the wide ones)
Posts: 106
Why are you guys comparing airline size with pay? Wouldn’t comparing profit margin and their ability to pay be a better benchmark?
F9 puts up ~25% margins vs legacies at ~ 10-15%. Who has the ability to afford the better contract?
Ups and Fedex are no where the size of the legacies but they have some of the best contracts. They didn’t negotiate based ob their size but on what their airline could afford to pay and the work they do.
Am I missing something here?
F9 puts up ~25% margins vs legacies at ~ 10-15%. Who has the ability to afford the better contract?
Ups and Fedex are no where the size of the legacies but they have some of the best contracts. They didn’t negotiate based ob their size but on what their airline could afford to pay and the work they do.
Am I missing something here?
#814
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: Bus CA
Posts: 658
Why are you guys comparing airline size with pay? Wouldn’t comparing profit margin and their ability to pay be a better benchmark?
F9 puts up ~25% margins vs legacies at ~ 10-15%. Who has the ability to afford the better contract?
Ups and Fedex are no where the size of the legacies but they have some of the best contracts. They didn’t negotiate based ob their size but on what their airline could afford to pay and the work they do.
Am I missing something here?
F9 puts up ~25% margins vs legacies at ~ 10-15%. Who has the ability to afford the better contract?
Ups and Fedex are no where the size of the legacies but they have some of the best contracts. They didn’t negotiate based ob their size but on what their airline could afford to pay and the work they do.
Am I missing something here?
#815
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: 1900D CA
Posts: 3,394
I agree, our large profit margins mean that frontier can afford to pay us a good contract, but the NMB might view our small size differently.
I know that when the Alaska rates were arbitrated, they said their small size meant they got less pay. Although $251 an hour ain't too shabby.
When I see our 20+% profit margins, I see a company that can afford to pay us, and will likely continue to be able to pay us thru a downturn. We may be able to hold onto our rates when the next downturn and concessions come at other airlines.
I know that when the Alaska rates were arbitrated, they said their small size meant they got less pay. Although $251 an hour ain't too shabby.
When I see our 20+% profit margins, I see a company that can afford to pay us, and will likely continue to be able to pay us thru a downturn. We may be able to hold onto our rates when the next downturn and concessions come at other airlines.
#816
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 409
Why are you guys comparing airline size with pay? Wouldn’t comparing profit margin and their ability to pay be a better benchmark?
F9 puts up ~25% margins vs legacies at ~ 10-15%. Who has the ability to afford the better contract?
Ups and Fedex are no where the size of the legacies but they have some of the best contracts. They didn’t negotiate based ob their size but on what their airline could afford to pay and the work they do.
Am I missing something here?
F9 puts up ~25% margins vs legacies at ~ 10-15%. Who has the ability to afford the better contract?
Ups and Fedex are no where the size of the legacies but they have some of the best contracts. They didn’t negotiate based ob their size but on what their airline could afford to pay and the work they do.
Am I missing something here?
Are you serious with comparing FedExs size to a legacy?
You understand FedEx is a much larger than DELTA?, lol right?
Delta is only an airline, FedEx is a Worldwide POWERHOUSE, same with UPS.....
Market cap alone is 2x the size, lol
Clueless
#817
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: Airbus (the wide ones)
Posts: 106
Good point. I was thing thinking size as in number of pilots or airframes as everybody else has been comparing different airlines on this thread. Comparing market cap of the whole company makes more sense. Why not profit margin?
And nice delivery btw. I love the rudeness of keyboard commandos. If this discussion was happing over a beer or in the crew room I’m sure you wouldn't be so arrogant in person.
And nice delivery btw. I love the rudeness of keyboard commandos. If this discussion was happing over a beer or in the crew room I’m sure you wouldn't be so arrogant in person.
#818
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 409
Good point. I was thing thinking size as in number of pilots or airframes as everybody else has been comparing different airlines on this thread. Comparing market cap of the whole company makes more sense. Why not profit margin?
And nice delivery btw. I love the rudeness of keyboard commandos. If this discussion was happing over a beer or in the crew room I’m sure you wouldn't be so arrogant in person.
And nice delivery btw. I love the rudeness of keyboard commandos. If this discussion was happing over a beer or in the crew room I’m sure you wouldn't be so arrogant in person.
#820
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Position: Bus CA
Posts: 658
I understood that it was a goal of the NC to not leave anyone behind (who is currently on property), and that could be done by putting current 1st year pilots on the 2nd year Date-of-Signing rates, effectively extending their total time on 2nd year pay. But this is a negotiation and nothing in regards to pay, benefits, or retirement have come close to an Agreement in Principle (AIP). So saying an NC goal will happen exactly as planned carries as much weight as a News Year’s resolution to stop drinking and lose weight.
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