Can we talk Retro?
 

I'm not debating percentage, that's for the NC to do, but do we know how it's going to be distributed?

I figured we'd do it the tried and true way of - new rate, minus old rate, times hours worked during the duration -

Spirit did some longevity equation for their TA, and I hear others saying they want the same for us, is it truly fair? What am I missing? Isn't pay rate effectively a longevity marker? Admittedly, I'm on the lower half of the seniority list that's been here less than 5 years. But that's just it, half our seniority list is one extreme or the other. I know us junior guys don't want to get screwed either.

Getting a little ahead of ourselves.

According to DC it will be a flat rate paid according to your seat. ALPA no longer pays retro by hours flown because they’ve been sued in the past by training Dept pilots and ALPA volunteers.

Yet another reason for my no vote.

Let's not decide how we are voting until we have something to vote on.

Regarding retro pay, I assume that we will get a ratification incentive, and not backpay. How the union decides to divvy that up is a different question. I say, give FOs more money because they are the ones who haven't been making sh*t for money. What do you think of that?

Or we could go Bernie Sanders style and give the largest checks to the guys who have made the least money since the amenable date. Or we could give all the money to the captains because screw FOs.

I predict, somehow, more than 50% of guys will not be happy with the distribution of the money.

I believe he said that was an ALPA National thing

I just need enough to buy spinning rims and a grille...

https://i.imgur.com/FpOk7qI.gif

https://i.imgur.com/qkYJ1qn.gif

I did not know that. Exactly why I started the thread. Thanks!

As far as it being too early? Nah, its completely in the NMBs hands now, what else are we going to complain about around here.

Captains will receive $50,000 each and first officers will each get a voucher for a turkey sandwich in their V file. Most of those vouchers will be stolen by flight attendants, but it won't matter because the vouchers will only be good at the schlotzsky's that closed this month. Captains will complain they didn't get a voucher.

Priceless!

^^ This is why I creep APC 😂

If you wanted that kind of money you should have gone to Envoy.

I want enough for Barry to eat a very large slice of humble pie.

...and because paying by hours would reward those that have been doing extra flying. Disclaimer: I’m not saying anybody should or should not pick up extra flying. Second disclaimer: I have decided I will stay home on my days off and reward my family with my presence and tell my creditors they can wait.

Simple
75 hrs per month back to April 2016 .... or no

That guy’s a slice of any kind of pie from exploding...

That’s our guarantee... that’s logical... which means it ain’t happening

It has been paid out by W2 in several recent contracts including the Delta contract. How it is paid is up to each airlines MEC and negotiating committee. ALPA is not in the process. Retro pay by its very description is to make you whole based on the amendable date of the contract. Hard to get sued if you respect that in the payouts.

Originally Posted by Aero1900 View Post

Captains will receive $50,000 each and first officers will each get a voucher for a turkey sandwich in their V file. Most of those vouchers will be stolen by flight attendants, but it won't matter because the vouchers will only be good at the schlotzsky's that closed this month. Captains will complain they didn't get a voucher.“
——

I love this 😁. All true. I give my vouchers to the FAs anyway. They need it more than me

I’m curious, was retro on the table for Spirit?

Vote no on what? What if you get a $1,000,000 in retro!

Also from what I understand we do no want any retro money to be labeled as a "bonus" from the company because of much higher tax rates. Does this sound correct? And of course it is absolutely not a bonus.

Hawaiian paid the difference between new rate and old rate at 81 credits a month. Seems to be as fair as you can get.

This is a common misconception. Either way the taxes are the same. Large payments made at once (be it retro, bonus, etc) are WITHHELD at a higher rate. The reason for this is the company projects that income on a monthly basis. In other words if they pay you $40,000 at once then they project you to make at least $480,000 that year ($40k*12 months). Someone making that money pays more taxes then someone making $100k/year.

The good news is at any rate, you get back the tax overpayment in a refund when you file.

This.

Plus, looking at the agreed to LTD plan, it's apparent no one is thinking about tax implications.

Ahh.. ok thanks for explaining. That makes sense.

Way to go Mr. Pedantic.

Please consider probability versus possibility.

The hourly rate ask is too low. Reserve rules weren’t fixed and are arguably worse than current book, long term disability still isn’t own occupation, per diem is industry trailing, we didn’t even ask for profit sharing, I don’t believe we will be seeing the ability to drop down to zero credit like Delta and (I believe) Spirit, Aaaaaand we’ve already agreed to a 5 year deal.

While it’s **possible** that all these things will be fixed in the 11th hour, it’s not **probable**. Hence, my no vote.

If we only have to fly on Wednesday's, does that mean every Wednesday? Seriously....there is nothing to vote on, not even bullet points from an AIP. Not even bullet points from a mediation session for that matter. This post is about as ridiculous as the guy posting about the GOA. Relax.

Either you haven’t been paying attention or you’re not an F9 person. Yes, in fact, we do have bullet points from mediation sessions that confirm each of the points I referred to in my post. To the extent negotiation update emails do not provide exact and undeniable confirmation of each of the points I’ve referenced, I have sought and received confirmation via almost daily contact with P2P union volunteers.

The worst part about this situation is that even if we get everything we’re asking for, it will be a sub-standard AIP.

If it’s not good enough when voting on the eventual TA - vote NO !

You will get nothing...and like it!

We were amendable April 2017

I think you’re forgetting LOA 67...

In the company’s letter to the NMB, they said ALPA’s proposal will cost them $750 million over the 5 years. I would expect at least $150 million a year in back pay for however long this thing drags on.

I like the way you think. Use their own faulty math against them.