Contract progress
 

I know this might be unpopular but...

I’m thinking the company may be getting desperate. I’ll reserve my judgement until the October meeting but I feel like the writing is on the wall.

Spirit stock price is rising and I think they would like to sell some of Frontier soon. The markets are also getting more vulnerable. I understand PE funds extremely well and they need a contract from us before they can sell. They always try to demoralize the workgroup before hand in order to secure the best price. (Aka sign a mediocre contract)

Don’t forget the leverage is on our side my brothers and sisters. Together we can undo there damage and build a strong airline. Just remember it’s us that holds the key.


Comments.

We’re only cancelling half of vacations, once we hit constantly 100% you’ll know that they’re starting to feel it. They figured out a way to cheat the system with an extra 6-12 month bandaid.

Our contract was written for a fairly friendly management team. I'm excited to learn all the new "reinterpretations" that our current team comes up with, starting with the new word "reroute".

They really like that new word. And when you’re telling paragraphs and numbers explaining the contract violation they are committing... next words out of their mouths is “are you refusing to fly?”

https://media.makeameme.org/created/****-IT--p563bk.jpg

Reroute. Yup, that’s new. I guess the question is, why did you answer the phone?

peds - set (cr)

Per new revision, not just set but OFF!!

Good point and I do have to read up more on when we have to call them back. (Middle of a trip, not on rsv)

Contractually, Never. Having said that there might be a reason you would want to.

It’s a problem for them and leverage for us. They admitted as much in the infamous poke the bear letter (that we aren’t required to call back). Don’t take my word for it, just read the letter.

I predict and bet:

1) management will offer exactly Spirit’s contract minus 1%
2) we will say no cuz it sucks
3) company lawyers will race the next day to Federal court in Chicago and have our case thrown out cuz NMB is following the RLA

Any takers???

As good as that seems. I don’t think Indigo is willing to take a chance when they’ve been winning by a huge margin so long with no end in sight. Pipe dream brother. I think they will extend on the law suit and carry on with current **** storm.

They offered Spirit rates on the last day of negotiations, and we said no.

Not Spirit rates, but Spirit contract. Of course we will say no with the sole purpose of requesting the lawsuit be dismissed.

Wait what? I consider myself well engaged here. I didn't know this. I talked to a NC rep at length just after the last day of negotiations. This was never mentioned. Not that it matters, because NK's contract isn't even close to good enough, especially now, but still I had no idea.

And it was on the condition the lawsuit be dismissed? So the company is bothered by the lawsuit? That's news to me too, because obviously they will win it, because they always win everything, because it's all rigged and they're #winning.

Do I really believe my last sentence? I don't want to, but it's getting hard not to.

Was it Spirit's old rates?

Minus 5%-10% on the rates and with less retirement. I think he is just talking about the last company offer before we proffered for release. It was way WORSE than Spirits in many aspects.
I think it was update 31 or 32.

I'd bet you'll end up with the current offer. It sure looks like you are on ice. The way you know your on ice is nothing is happening. :eek: The NMB will let you sit there till you take the offer. Your management team knows they've met the minimum to keep the NMB off their a$$. :mad: With that being said NMB is going to cool the pilots off till they figure this out. Hope I'm wrong but actions speak loader than words. :cool:

BTW you guys work for a company that is just plain low class. They don't respect what you do everyday. Look how you are treated. You really think they're going to pay anywhere near market?? I don't know why anyone would stick around.

Yes we do work for a low class management team. The NMB will not force them but maybe one day our pilot group will stop doing favors. That, coupled with the word being out that this is NOT a place ANY potential recruit should consider at this time...yes I DO expect them to pay us market rates.

As long as it takes or until the fire trucks are out of water. I’m ready.

The best scenario..
 

Is for new hires to become scarce. Our job is to educate anyone who asks what a terrible mistake it would be to apply here...after all the public info, can’t understand why someone would do it, but hey...that’s life....spread the word...to EVERYONE within earshot about the terrible management, low morale and all around septic tank this place has become.....don’t sign that Behind the Music contract....

There will always be pilots out there, willing to undercut other pilots, just for a job flying a bigger aircraft.

When is the company's response to the lawsuit due....


Not that it will be anything other than a request for an extension

Or do them the biggest favor of all, ratifying a substandard contract.

That's what we did. (NK)

It was due on 9/24. They asked for an extension which they got. I think it is now due in the first week of November.

Correct. So they can show up to mediation in October with a paltry increase in their offer. Maybe even throw a bone like letting November pilots have their vacation. All so they can say, “See, your honor, we are obviously doing our part. Now please throw out this lawsuit.”

NK pilot here. After a recent conversation with one of our negotiators the biggest take away he had from the whole process of dealing with the NMB was that “we are who we are.” Meaning that if you want Delta pay and benefits, go to Delta. His unfortunate assessment was that the NMB pidgin holed the NK pilot group into the NMB’s predetermined hierarchy within the industry and no matter how long we held out, screamed and shouted there was an artificial ceiling the NMB would never allow us to break through.
We got what we could in the end. Or more precisely we got what the NMB allowed us to get. The NMB was actually flabbergasted that we turned down the October 2017 offer from the company and held out for LTD and defined contributions albeit at the expense of accepting a PBS path to a contract
It fell short of the expectations of most of the rank and file but we got what we got and we’re moving forward.
I present this perspective only as a glimpse into what one of our negotiators experienced in our process.
I hope for the sake of my friends at F9 you will ultimately get something on the table soon.

As a NK pilot who has friends everywhere, I will corroborate this 100%. Is it what we deserved, HELL NO! I sincerely hope y’all lap us, but if the NMB is the guiding force for you as it was for us, be ready for another disappointment. I wish every Frontier pilot the best of luck (staying or leaving), and when/if we join hands in marriage, I’d be honored! (Not gonna lie, a JCBA gives us a second bite at the apple...)

NMB hog tied the Spirit pilots without a doubt. We were never going to get released. :eek:

To make a long story short, I’m in my last semester of my aviation program and one of my classes is Aviation Law. I need to write a part on two court cases af the airline level. It has to be pending, I need to know what the dispute is, and what court is hearing the case out. I can do the rest of from there. Any and all help would be appreciated! Thanks!