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I’ve Already Decided

Old 11-03-2018, 04:10 PM
  #1  
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Default I’ve Already Decided

Yes, I realize this is a first time post. It is a first time post because, under my real screen name, it would be fairly easy to identify me and I am concerned about retaliation from the company....yes, I have grown to trust them that little.

I don’ t have to see this AIP / TA / whatever you want to call it to know that I will be a solid NO vote. The reason for this is that this is absolutely NOT the best this company can do. How do I know that? I know that because that’s not how negotiations work; something is ALWAYS held in reserve.

This company has more money / work rules held in reserve for the possibility of it not passing. They know that there is a quantifiable cost for any percentage point over 51% by which this thing would ratify. That is all they want and need....51%. That is all they’ve offered. I want more than that! I can assure you, this management group didn’t just decide overnight - out of the goodness of their benevolent hearts - to capitulate and give us a contract for Christmas. For some reason, known only to them, they need to get this done sooner rather than later. Do not fall for it, my brothers, YOU have the leverage!!! They don’t want to get this matter put to bed, they NEED to get this matter put to bed to make them even MORE money.

PBS is a concession. Period. There are no two ways about it. The only reason DL, UA, etc. have PBS today is because they gave it as a concession during bankruptcy.

Additionally, ALPA National wants to get this done so they can quit devoting time and resources to the process and move down the road and get ready for contract openers at DL, UA, etc., so their spin machine is going to be in full motion mixing up the Kool-Aid for us.

Don’t drink it, kids, it’s poison!!!

Do not fall for the ALPA spin and the Indigo trap. Do not drink the Kool-Aid. Stand strong, brothers, and hold the line. THERE IS MORE MONEY AND THEIR ARE MORE BENEFICIAL WORK RULES LEFT IN THAT WHEELBARROW!!!
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Old 11-03-2018, 04:21 PM
  #2  
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We haven’t even seen the proposal yet. Relax.
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Old 11-03-2018, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by ThunderChicken View Post
We haven’t even seen the proposal yet. Relax.
That’s the point - I don’t have to see it.

A) It contains PBS.
B) There is more economic benefit left in the kitty for them to give us.
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Old 11-03-2018, 04:42 PM
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You guys got an AIP? That is good news, hoping for the best
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Old 11-03-2018, 05:15 PM
  #5  
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Originally Posted by F9 NO Voter View Post
Yes, I realize this is a first time post. It is a first time post because, under my real screen name, it would be fairly easy to identify me and I am concerned about retaliation from the company....yes, I have grown to trust them that little.

I don’ t have to see this AIP / TA / whatever you want to call it to know that I will be a solid NO vote. The reason for this is that this is absolutely NOT the best this company can do. How do I know that? I know that because that’s not how negotiations work; something is ALWAYS held in reserve.

This company has more money / work rules held in reserve for the possibility of it not passing. They know that there is a quantifiable cost for any percentage point over 51% by which this thing would ratify. That is all they want and need....51%. That is all they’ve offered. I want more than that! I can assure you, this management group didn’t just decide overnight - out of the goodness of their benevolent hearts - to capitulate and give us a contract for Christmas. For some reason, known only to them, they need to get this done sooner rather than later. Do not fall for it, my brothers, YOU have the leverage!!! They don’t want to get this matter put to bed, they NEED to get this matter put to bed to make them even MORE money.

PBS is a concession. Period. There are no two ways about it. The only reason DL, UA, etc. have PBS today is because they gave it as a concession during bankruptcy.

Additionally, ALPA National wants to get this done so they can quit devoting time and resources to the process and move down the road and get ready for contract openers at DL, UA, etc., so their spin machine is going to be in full motion mixing up the Kool-Aid for us.

Don’t drink it, kids, it’s poison!!!

Do not fall for the ALPA spin and the Indigo trap. Do not drink the Kool-Aid. Stand strong, brothers, and hold the line. THERE IS MORE MONEY AND THEIR ARE MORE BENEFICIAL WORK RULES LEFT IN THAT WHEELBARROW!!!
So essentially you are shooting down the very attractive gal hitting on you at the bar because you are expecting a perfect 10 to walk through door. At the VERY least give the 9.5 a chance. Then if you don’t like her, sure shut her down. Ha ha
In all seriousness let’s wait and see what we get, at this point I don’t think they would be putting something out to vote that would be a waste of time.
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Old 11-03-2018, 05:19 PM
  #6  
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Again....what IF we vote it down?
The company OBVIOUSLY is on the ropes....
Turn about is fair play go for WAY BEYOND the moon!
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Old 11-03-2018, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by F9 NO Voter View Post
Yes, I realize this is a first time post. It is a first time post because, under my real screen name, it would be fairly easy to identify me and I am concerned about retaliation from the company....yes, I have grown to trust them that little.

I don’ t have to see this AIP / TA / whatever you want to call it to know that I will be a solid NO vote. The reason for this is that this is absolutely NOT the best this company can do. How do I know that? I know that because that’s not how negotiations work; something is ALWAYS held in reserve.

This company has more money / work rules held in reserve for the possibility of it not passing. They know that there is a quantifiable cost for any percentage point over 51% by which this thing would ratify. That is all they want and need....51%. That is all they’ve offered. I want more than that! I can assure you, this management group didn’t just decide overnight - out of the goodness of their benevolent hearts - to capitulate and give us a contract for Christmas. For some reason, known only to them, they need to get this done sooner rather than later. Do not fall for it, my brothers, YOU have the leverage!!! They don’t want to get this matter put to bed, they NEED to get this matter put to bed to make them even MORE money.

PBS is a concession. Period. There are no two ways about it. The only reason DL, UA, etc. have PBS today is because they gave it as a concession during bankruptcy.

Additionally, ALPA National wants to get this done so they can quit devoting time and resources to the process and move down the road and get ready for contract openers at DL, UA, etc., so their spin machine is going to be in full motion mixing up the Kool-Aid for us.

Don’t drink it, kids, it’s poison!!!

Do not fall for the ALPA spin and the Indigo trap. Do not drink the Kool-Aid. Stand strong, brothers, and hold the line. THERE IS MORE MONEY AND THEIR ARE MORE BENEFICIAL WORK RULES LEFT IN THAT WHEELBARROW!!!
100000% agree!!! But the problem is...
There’s lot on here and on the line that talk all this big **** how they won’t settle and they will be the first to click yes the minute the vote opens. Roll overs 100%. They cant get past the money to realize there’s more to be had if we stand our ground. The company didn’t out of no where decide they NEED TO GET THIS DONE!!! They are in a bind. And y’all are gonna take the first bait they put in the water? SELL OUTS! I know this will pass bc of gutless pilots who are not willing to run the whole marathon. This is not the best them greedy bastards can do. They’ve planned this from the get go. I am a 100% no, no matter what. Why? Bc the ball is our court FINALLY! They need pilots. Pilots aren’t coming. Brand new planes are being parked(spares... lmao, who believes that?) now is the time to demand your worth. We have these guys over a barrel. Do to them what they’ve done to us. They want a contract by Jan 2019? They shoulda wanted that 2 yrs ago and it woulda been done but they decided to STEAL our money for over 2 yrs. don’t sell out. If we vote no they will be right back at the table just like weve been for 2 1/2 yrs. this is a terrible contract from just the bits I’ve heard. Buyers remorse is coming if you vote this in. And you will... Losers as somebody said in another thread is the perfect name. Y’all want to call the new guys wounds but yes votes are ****ing losers.
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Old 11-03-2018, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ReserveCA View Post
Again....what IF we vote it down?
The company OBVIOUSLY is on the ropes....
Turn about is fair play go for WAY BEYOND the moon!
I agree that regardless what this contract looks like, if we vote it down the following deal will be sweeter.

That said, I think this idea of voting it down period just to get more is foolish.

Don’t get me wrong, I refuse to settle. I’ve voted on 2 contracts in my career and both times I was a proud NO!

I have definitely not made up my mind either way, and I have high expectations given that PBS is a concession that’s been made. IF my expectations are met (and I believe they’re completely reasonable) then I will gladly vote yes. If not, then I’ll get to cast my 3rd NO vote of my career.

I think openly discussing the potential pitfalls of PBS is an excellent idea and I have been reading up in these forums to gain other perspectives on what may very well bite us in our butts if we let it. I had PBS at my previous regional and I hated it compared to what we have at Frontier.

I have a list of things already that I will be on the lookout for (like unstacking) and if not clearly addressed to my liking I’ll be a solid NO.

My point is we should all be educated and know what it is we personally expect in a contract. If it meets your expectations then what do you gain by voting no? A little bit more in 6 months to 2 years time. What about what’s lost in the meantime?

If it doesn’t meet your expectations then you should vote no. As of now, NO ONE knows if it meets your expectations because it’s all speculation.

Educate yourself. Keep an open mind. Don’t vote out of fear. Don’t be bought by a big $igning bonu$ and know what it is YOU expect to see.
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Old 11-03-2018, 06:05 PM
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The only reason why this is even going to a vote is bc the union has done the best they can do. And they have worked extremely hard and I’d like to shake everyone of their hands and thank them for their service to us. But, they need our help. They’ve done the best they can do up to this point, now they need our help. They can’t do anymore without the pilot group forcing them to. It’s part of the process. Help the union help us. If ever was a time to grow a pair in your life, now is the time. I’ve said my peace. Y’all may go and roll over and vote yes now bc your gutless. End of rant and I thank each and every one of you for reading this. Now if you will, please post how awesome the consession’s on our new contract are acceptable because you have no self respect.
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Old 11-03-2018, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by SFA320 View Post
So essentially you are shooting down the very attractive gal hitting on you at the bar because you are expecting a perfect 10 to walk through door. At the VERY least give the 9.5 a chance.
Are we talking an "aviation" 9.5, or a regular 9.5?
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