Skycap876

I've spoken to a few at Frontier pilots while commuting through Denver and their opinions on the growth plans and current upgrade times.

I've been offered an interview but without an upgrade in under 8 years, I do not see it a feasible move for my family and current age. I realize there are many factors the industry can't predict but the optimistic opinions I receive are hard to ignore.

Reading a lot of these threads holds very different opinions of what the future holds for Frontier.

Any additional considerations or insight would be welcomed.

I should add that I will specifically be looking for a Chicago O'Hare domicile.

Thanks in advance.

TOGALOCK

Specifically what information are you looking for? I don’t foresee any orders being cancelled and I would be willing to bet a years worth of pay that additional orders will be placed in the future. A few weeks ago an additional (and unexpected) ten 321s were announced and will be delivered next year. If you are hired in the next year or two then you will likely see a pretty rapid upgrade. After that, without any additional orders (which, like I said, I doubt will be the case), you may find yourself stagnating towards the top of the FO list. However I don’t think you will ever see an 8 year upgrade as more accelerated retirements will be starting to kick in around that time. Just for reference, some pilots with less than four years with the company will be taking their upgrade check-rides this week. If it weren’t for covid, it would have been under three years. Things are moving.

I don’t know your situation and what your considerations for leaving would be, but from a financial standpoint, you will be making more as a second year FO here than any line captain at any regional. The only exceptions to that would possibly be check airmen, management pilots, etc. By year three you will be out earning any pilot at any regional hands down. All with 15% DC to your 401k. Now, if you currently live in your regional base and would move the family to ORD then I can understand your position. If you already live in ORD then you should have your application in yesterday. You would be a fool not to. I would also apply to Spirit as well.

I’m going to go out on a limb based on your post and say that you have around ten years left until retirement? Even if you stayed as an FO that entire time and lived in base, I can promise you that you will out earn anything you would ever make by staying at your regional, your retirement will look much nicer and you will have a much better quality of life. Imagine being able to be home in your own bed with your family every night.

Like I said, I understand everyone’s situation is different and change is a scary thing in this industry, but the LCCs aren’t stepping stones anymore if you don’t want them to be. Even being a career FO at someplace like here or Spirit will be a night and day difference from any regional captain job. Your bank account, 401k, and quality of life will thank you.

Good luck in your decision!

PC12

Would you be living base? I’m not ORD based, but I know there are quite a few senior folks that commute to ORD. I’d think your 8 year requirement is definitely on the table.

Nacho Libre

The most junior CA is a 2/17 hire according to the seniority list. So I am not sure how you have come up with 8 years for upgrade. In addition the junior CHI CA is a 6/16 hire.

The COVID situation has had a marked change to our hiring and upgrade times and we are just emerging from the pause in movement and should be seeing hiring and upgrades continuing going forward. We are looking forward to seeing a new ATL base opening up and hopefully an actual “official” announcement of a PHX base in the near future as well. The ATL base will have some impact on CHI as F9 likes to call our ORD base but the biggest impact will happen if and when PHX opens. IF those base openings don’t come with additional shrinkage of the DEN base.

It has been said before that Indigo Partners thinks the ULCC market share in the US is still low and has plenty of growth potential. Currently the order book is pretty good and it MAY be added to, but one thing for certain is nothing is set in stone. Personally I believe that F9 will place additional orders for more aircraft. The reason I feel this way is that growth helps generate profits in that the fixed cost of say the GO and leadership teams, continue to be diluted the larger the fleet becomes thus helping give F9 cost advantages over other airlines. F9’s fuel efficient Airbus fleet are helping to substantially reduce our cost as is the upsizing from a seat standpoint to a larger A321 fleet. Frontier’s last A319 flight is this month.

At the end of the day it is all really a decision that you will have to make on your own. Are you happy where you are currently? Would you require the upgrade in order to make it viable for your personal situation? Once you upgrade the reserve time commitment and time until line holder could be a while. Do you currently do redeye flights?

I came here before contact negotiations started. At that time my friends were highly skeptical and most saw it as a gamble for me. Currently I couldn’t be happier with my decision. Upon retirement will I be able to say the same thing? Nobody knows exactly, but it’s been the best career move to date. I only regret not trying to get here sooner.

Skycap876

I appreciate the comments. I have 19 years left. That may seem like an easy decision but it's not. Yes I drive to ORD for work so F9 was also a good fit for that reason. Obviously that could change but its history is pretty strong.

The money is not the only consideration. I have many reasons I like Frontier. I have always liked Airbus products, so from a technical fascination, it would be a great experience. I like the Frontier model and their LCC ideas. It seems a fairly resilient model even during poor economic times. That brings a sense of security; if there is such a thing in this industry. Above all, talking with the flight crews over the years, I was confident I would fit into the company culture. It seems a great group of fun and interactive professionals.

However I do not want to be a 10 year first officer and spend the remaining 9 years of my career as a very junior Captain away from family and friends. I realize some pilots are happy living and working as a senior First Officers but that is not for me.

I've been in this industry around 20 years. I realize anything can change and chasing an upgrade or a domicile is usually a risky and poorly motivated venture.

That being said, I really like Frontier and just want some sense of security that it will not turn out to be a regretful move. Money is not the primary driving factor but of course it helps. For me its about the people I meet, the relationships I build and ultimately to become a mentoring and professional Captain. To your last point, I was offered a Job with Spirit. I find Frontier a better fit.

Skycap876

Good comments. Glad it has worked out for you, I for some unfounded reason Always had a hunch that Frontier was a well to do operation that would be around for the future. I used to talk with Frontier crews back at CAE in DEN when I was in CL-65 training. That was 2004, and Frontier is still here. Great pilots and very polite.

Yes upgrade is a requirement for me personally.

guessit

Seems like people are using APC as their own personal advertisement. However, that can also work against you. Sharing personal information like this guy does, Chicago CAE age CL-55 blah blah blah will defiantly put a red flag on you when ask, why frontier? Chicago, and then they tell you Chicago is super senior here, then what? the airbus? "so from a technical fascination, it would be a great experience I like the Frontier model and their LCC ideas. It seems a fairly resilient model even during poor economic times. That brings a sense of security; if there is such a thing in this industry. Above all, talking with the flight crews over the years, I was confident I would fit into the company culture. It seems a great group of fun and interactive professionals." save it for the interview.

turbojet28

I am a senior F/O and I honestly have a better QOL than I ever thought I would have in my career. I like staying in the right seat because for my family it is a perfect balance of days off, flexibility, and good pay. I may not make CA money, but I make a good living that almost all of my non-flying friends would kill for. Once my kids are a little older, maybe I’ll put in for an upgrade to accelerate my retirement accounts. Of course, this is all subject to change as we all know, but for now, it’s hard to imagine a better flying job, and I’m not even joking.

symbian simian

F9 can keep him. Look at his posts on NK side.

Aviatormar

why do you have to be a captain? 99% of the times that’s the worst captain possible. What’s wrong with being a senior FO? 18 days off, easy trips and 150k isn’t good enough? Ohhhh ego… that’s right. Forgot about that.