Is there any chance ONT could ever be a base or does Frontier believe it’s just too expensive to operate out of CA?

I'm told it is the CA issue.

Never is a long, long time…but we will probably have a CA base sometime just BEFORE never. We put bases where we have the most operations…ONT isn’t even the most serviced city in the state. I see CLE and/or CVG, RDU, CHI coming back, and even SJU being bases before anywhere in a California.

Note: this is usually where somebody will say SJU (or a co-domicile of ORD/MDW “isn’t allowed by the contract”. Don’t listen to them, there is nowhere in the CBA that says the company can’t do this.

ONT base was asked to D.S in my ground school a couple years ago. He said they looked at it but there were a few California labor law issues they didn't want to deal with so they parked that idea.

Numerous airlines are closing/reducing CA inflight bases due to work laws not operationally compatible with airline ops

https://liveandletsfly.com/california-flight-crew-rest/

If unions can leverage this into mandatory I need off the aircraft for a half hr or at least the 10 mins during quick turns that might work. It’s pretty dumb now with fa told by gate agents they can’t get off and grab food. Unions do need to be careful as the article mentions and not cause carriers to just close bases. Hopefully common sense prevails.

Based on what I’ve heard from people in RGS, I wouldn’t be surprised to see both CLE and CVG as bases at some point. Both cities are consistently profitable and will support some modest growth.

The MDW thing is much more tentative. I’ve heard that they are still trying to find consistent profitability as WN has significantly ramped up competition with us there. I also think that if the JBLU/NK thing pans out, along with AA starting to retreat from the domestic market in ORD, competitive market pressures may raise fares significantly in ORD, leaving it a more fertile ground for ULCC in the future. I think it’s possible that we see a Chicago base in the future, but it will be in response to future market conditions allowing more growth - a much more speculative thing than CLE/CVG.

CLE base confirmed…look at Uncle Biffs latest video. ;)

Interesting....
https://news.jetblue.com/latest-news...t/default.aspx

Can't wait for that LGA redeye turn. Coming soon to a junior reserve crew.

6 gates and 22 slots! Wow.

Next crew base: LGA!

Fortunately LGA has a curfew. Although I guess if you can leave before midnight and get back after 6am….crap. This thought leaves a bad taste in mouth.

Holy cow, that’s impressive!

I remember doing DEN-LGA red eyes. Scheduled to land right at 6:00. I can see a few of those coming our way. At any rate, “owning” terminal 1 will be lucrative.

I have gotten to go ahead to takeoff during curfew hours at SAN a couple times already and we’re just paying the fine. If they do open LGA as a base I can see 1 year captains.

Well that’s not very low cost! Haha

CLE/CVG rumors have seemed to go cold recently. Anyone heard any actual info in the past couple months from RGS appearances?

they cannot staff the base they just opened, no way they open another one any time soon.

DS said as much. CLE or CVG will be announced by the end of the year, but will open next year as the current bases aren't staffed properly, MIA, PHX, DFW

I count

19 cities served from CLE

12 from CVG

maybe it hinges on the CLE re-build project ? https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/...aa-green-light

also keep in mind that "20" seems to be the number management looks for, regarding cities served, for a base to be opened.

Then you see Miami with 9 per day in Sept.

what was Miami at when they opened it

Circa 2019: (Pre-COVID....)

https://news.miami-airport.com/front...m-mia-in-2020/

Looks like they had 14 cities prior to the announcement, with 8 added, to make 22 destinations. Again, pre-COVID. Not sure how gun-shy Barry and company is now, but 20 always seemed to be the happy spot for the prior bases, to include DFW.

I'd be more curious if their plans have changed with the possible gates/slots from the JB/NK divesture agreement.

rumor is it we’re going to run 330’s out of Trenton across the pond

nah, 330’s TTN to ISP is more like it

You’re right this was all pre-Covid AND pre-attempted merger, I assume they would’ve tried a co-domicile with FLL had the merger gone through (I think the FAs already have that). We still have a fair amount of FLL flying too so I don’t rule that out in the future. I don’t see MIA going away but I don’t see it doing much else until the BK/NK merger details are finalized and we decide where our assets need to go.

previous articles about DFW base:

https://news.flyfrontier.com/frontie...ional-airport/

again "20 destinations rule" in play. I might modify this to say "with new cities considered in the total, 20 destinations as a minimum"

which means CVG indeed is in play

CVG would be huge for a lot of people... CLE, not so much. At least for what I know, it would bring at least 2-3 people I know up there. If we ever see ORD/MDW again, It would make my life so much better and so many other people's as well. Even if they add 60 slots back into DEN.

Right now they shrunk DEN and closed ORD and it just ruined a lot of other bases because super senior people are scattered around now.

DS said in RGS a few months ago that the whole MDW/ORD thing will be in flux for a while as the chips fall from the B6/NK merger. He actually made the point that the higher fares from that combined airline, plus the fact that AA is largely surrendering domestic share in ORD might very well end up changing the competitive landscape and see us back in ORD in a bigger way at some point down the road.

Another thinly veiled attempt at stemming attrition by offering the hope of free candy from the back of a van.

Guess you had to be there - that’s not at all how he came across about it.

in my opinion it will be whatever airport is cheaper to operate out of. covered hangar space would likely be sought after also, due to the winters.

we also know Barry (smartly...) does not re-invent the wheel. If a few airlines had hubs or heavy presence there, and stream of passengers, it is attractive as a base. McDonalds across the street from Burger King 101 stuff. Every pilot base so far (now closed ORD in the list) has been a Big-3 hub, Big-3 crew base, or Big-3 major presence.

CLE has more of that than CVG but who knows what the crystal ball says.

You can have your doubts, but DS is the one person that I actually somewhat respect. His job is to figure all of this out and I personally really enjoy learning more about the ops side of the airline. In RGS 8 months ago he said ORD/MDW was something they were continuing to look at, but it would be at least a year and a half or 2 years before they made any decisions.

What is the general consensus on dual basing for pilots? ORD/MDW or FLL/MIA?

Personally I’m not really all about it but I didn’t get shoved out of my home base…yet.

couple of years ago some of the union guys I spoke to said the company was probably going to be very interested in it. PHL and TTN is what they specifically referenced.

but reading the emails/video from the union and Brad, I was surprised it wasn’t mentioned.

We previously had a dual base (chicago)

I don't believe there's anything preventing them from doing it again now

I'm no expert, but I feel there's more to that story. With all the flying out of TTN and FLL we do. Also, the FAs already have codomiciles there.

I mean would you expect Barry and Indigo to not squeeze every ounce that they could? If they could've they would've, I feel.

money. they can open a base in San Francisco but it will cost too much money or would not make sense from the money standpoint.

money prevents them.

ORD was too expensive, in all likelihood, and they got a favorable reception by MDW airport

the greenest airline is all about the money. Their money.

and that, you can, uh, take to the bank

That doesn’t explain why you would close the pilot base vs move it down the street the same time as the FA base was moved.

Now if the need to staff ATL immediately was a concern to fill slots and justify the new base that’s a plausible story. But nothing of the sort was mentioned at the time. It came at the same time as the second Covid wave and section 19s so the rumor and possible truth of BB getting angry makes more sense in this case.

yeah, who knows. all good points