Loss of flight medical Frontier, JB, Spirit
 

How is the loss of flight medical benefits between Frontier, JetBlue and Spirit airlines, Also what happened to all of the Frontier threads? I was going to dig through and read them but anything before 2023 is gone.

I too am curious about this issue.

Ours is 60% of your gross, and you can supplement it if you so choose. I was told Spirit is 70%.

Up to 8000/month unless you do a buy up a policy

As posted. It’s $8000 a month. If you use the imputed income it is not taxed.

If you do the buy up it’s $10,500 a month . I’d have to look and see how much the premium is per month extra. $10.5 non taxed is like making 14K gross / pre tax.

Keep in mind it goes off 60/70 percent off your base salary gross income. So a 2 year FO you won’t get that payout. But a captain you will.

Whatever it is, it is leaps and bounds behind the legacies I am pretty sure, and I hope we get better options in the next contract ontop of LTD.

That wasn't the question, but thanks for stating the obvious.

no problem. Just figured people should know.

Maybe some APC folks can chime in on their LTD from their respective airline for comparison.

I was on our LTD for almost a year. It paid all my bills while I was out. I was thankful for that safety net.

So the buy up is 60% of your base pay up to $15k and an extension of own occupation to 5 years (vs the 2 year company paid). You can only get over $8k once your annual income exceeds $170k though. I believe the cost is based on what your max benefit would be at your current pay rate. I'm paying about $300 a month.

I think the 60% figure is industry standard actually.

The difference is really about how long you'll be able to stay making that 60% of you can't get your medical back.

How long is the coverage for? Does it last til age 65?

Yeah thats what I was wondering... The fact you can spend 20 years somewhere just to lose your medical and never fly again and only be covered for 5 years is pretty horrific. Especially when others in the industry will cover you till age 65.

Nope, maximum of 5 years with a buy up. NC completely blew this off the last contract.

Weren’t you just at United :D
Colors at United

Allegiant is $7500/mo., max. Taxable. Plus you have to go on COBRA which for families is around $1700/mo. Figure on taking home around $4300/mo.

My buddy at AA just messaged me back. They are $8000 max just like us. I didn’t ask if it’s till 65 though. They are negotiating it in the new contract.

Most places you end up paying your benefits out of the policy.

I’m a UAL pilot, ours is woefully inadequate. Was 50% of your income to a max of $8000 a month cap (calculated at 85.5 hours a month - 1026 annually ) tax free no B fund contributions. In our pandemic LOA it went to a max cap of $11,000 per month. Ours pays until age 65 and is tax free due to the fact we use after tax dollars to pay for our portion of the premiums - about a 65/35 company/pilot paid premiums.

We are attempting to reach or exceed DAL LTD on our current negotiations. That have had their LTD since their old contract was negotiated over six years ago.

50% of income as determined by highest year of last three years, No Cap and 32% B fund contribution (to equal pre LTD 16% B fund contributions) till age 65. Theirs is taxable as the company pays 100% of the premiums.

LTD shouldn’t be a massive pay cut.

Thank you for posting info from other airlines.

I believe our union guys are preparing a comprehensive contract comparison document. These are very beneficial to have. To compare the good and the bad from around the industry.

I know that one of the reasons the automatic coverage to 65 has been hard for us to get is due to the fact that we are using a 3rd party insurance company. Some of the big airlines might be self insured? From what I was told, getting a 3rd party insurance company to cover to 65 would be extremely expensive, using a ton of negotiating capital. For something only a small fraction of the pilot group will ever use. Though choices

Own occupation LTD should be the goal here. United has it. What we have now offsets anything you make at another job dollar for dollar. It incentivizes Hartford to force you to apply for SSDI, even if there is no way you will qualify for it. By the way; The Hartford sucks. They go out of their way to make the process difficult.

If self-insurance at the big airlines is what allows for own-occupation, perhaps we should look at allying with the Spirits, JetBlues, etcetera, to create a big enough pool to make this possible.

I recall from the current contract road shows the person presenting said most airlines self insure.

When you discuss disability you need to understand four things.
1. Who funds the disability plan? Is it the company, the pilots or a combination?
2. Does your pension continue to be funded.
3. What percentage of your pay is covered and is that percentage calculated based on actual earnings or a artificial number like 40 hours. Is there a cap?
4. How long will disability be paid?

The plan at Delta pays 50% of FAE including all income and profit sharing until FAA mandated retirement age with no cap. 100% company funded with the pension plan fully funded.

Note that disability plans that are fully company funded are also taxed. If a disability plan is pilot funded it is not taxed. Of course if your company funds your plan you are free to buy an additional plan out of your pocket. This would provide you two incomes with one taxed and one untaxed.

It’s not a small fraction of your pilot group. Historically probably in excess of 50% of your pilot group will use disability.
The big airlines generally are required to set up a disability and survivorship fund. It’s normally held outside the company and will continue paying benefits even if the company files chapter 11 or liquidates.

At NK, it’s 60% of previous years earnings up to $15,000/month with the buy up (to age 65). 3 inadequacies:
-Income offsets, if you work somewhere else, that income will offset LTD benefits.
-Medical coverage for only the first 5 years at company rates, after that, you’re on your own.
-Zero company retirement contributions.

Yeah, you're right. When I said only a small fraction will use it I was thinking of using it for a very long time like over 5 years and all the way to retirement.

Definitely lots of guys will use it for short periods.

ALPA says 1 in 4 pilots lose their medical during their careers.

Agreed.

I went out for a while and applied and was denied based on the loss of medical being from a previous medical condition. It’s not great Insurance….

Right. But the average duration is probably 6 months. Our LTD covers that

So what did you do Dracir ? Not have any income while out or did you appeal it ?

Fought for it (and lost).

Worked other jobs to compensate until I got my medical back.

It’s company paid now so of course I’ll take it - and if in the situation again will try and use. But won’t hold my breath (or pay for any plus up).

I don't know if anyone cares about fractional flying, just in case I'll post below what NetJets has:

At NetJets we have company provided coverage for 3 years. 60% no cap first 6 months, then $5K/month cap for 2.5 years. Taxable. You do keep all your benefits including 401k and excellent medical coverage that is free.

The pilot's union at NetJets has an optional plan via Symetra Insurance Company and administered by Harvey Watt. At the time I gave up my medical the max amount was $7000/month non-taxable as long as you paid the premiums with after-tax dollars. I believe the max amount now is $8000/month. I paid around $300/month in premiums which go away once you inform Harvey Watt you've lost your medical. This plan kicks in after the 3 years of NetJets coverage runs out. Depends on your age for how long it will run. Younger pilots will draw it until full Social Security retirement age I think. In my case I went out at age 60, drew company benefits until 63, then the plan kicked in and will pay me until age 68. After age 60 the years of coverage start going down. When you reach full Social Security retirement age you have to start drawing that which is then deducted from the amount you were receiving from Symetra. You're also limited in how much you can earn before they start reducing your benefit. In my case I was making around $200K/yr so can only earn $40K/yr before they start taking so much it's not worth making over $40K. I found that out when I was looking at a Sim Instructor job with AA in CLT.

The main difference with this plan is benefits don't stop at age 65 since there's no mandatory retirement age. Now starting next January NetJets got a bill thru Congress that allows them to implement an age 70 retirement. However the way the Symetra plan was structured you couldn't draw benefits for very long after age 70 anyway. Perhaps a only a year or two.