Originally Posted by brocklee9000

Yes, I mentioned that those 2:30 three days obviously had credit shaved off both sides. A 3 day should pay at least 15 no questions asked. As it stands, a pairing like D3256 in May, pays 14 for 2 days, just a layover in SLC. A similar trip D3526 (I think this is exactly one of the ones I saw whittled down to NTR). Pays 14:27, with a 29hr layover included. Trip rig kicks in, but only adds about 20 minutes. Cool, 20 minutes to spend a 30hr in Salt Lake City. If we get 5hrs on the layover day, that trip would pay 19:06 (add the blocks of 6:39+5:00 layover+7:27). If we had MDG block or better, it would pay just over 19hrs for a three day. Instead, the trip rig barely kicks in. You could do the 2 day slc layover for 27 minutes less credit, but you gain that whole day back which you’d otherwise waste sitting in the SLC hotel. Meh.

Instead, there are still 10hr 3 days with a wasted day in the middle. I don’t have pairing # off the top of my head that highlights the worst. But here’s another DEN trip in May. D3505. Pays 12:36. Only pays because of the trip rig. With the 4:12 CDT at Skywest, that same trip (again only at 4:12 a day instead of 5) would have paid minimum 12:36. If you took block day 1 and then added 5 for the layover day, then 5 more day 3 (since it’s just 1 leg); it should add up (8:04+5+5) to 18:04. Instead, you’re only paid the trip rig to true up to 12:36, and waste a day in Charlotte. And only averaging to paid 4:12 a day, which was MDG at some regionals. Weak.

And if we’re talking about rig; we had all that at skw. Trip rig wasn’t quite as good, 4:1 TAFB. But another area they did better at was a daily 2:1 duty rig. Rarely saw trip rig kick in but duty rig did all the time. Sometimes baked into the pairing when it was built, but more often than not due to daily delays.

Originally Posted by brocklee9000

Yes, I mentioned that those 2:30 three days obviously had credit shaved off both sides. A 3 day should pay at least 15 no questions asked. As it stands, a pairing like D3256 in May, pays 14 for 2 days, just a layover in SLC. A similar trip D3526 (I think this is exactly one of the ones I saw whittled down to NTR). Pays 14:27, with a 29hr layover included. Trip rig kicks in, but only adds about 20 minutes. Cool, 20 minutes to spend a 30hr in Salt Lake City. If we get 5hrs on the layover day, that trip would pay 19:06 (add the blocks of 6:39+5:00 layover+7:27). If we had MDG block or better, it would pay just over 19hrs for a three day. Instead, the trip rig barely kicks in. You could do the 2 day slc layover for 27 minutes less credit, but you gain that whole day back which you’d otherwise waste sitting in the SLC hotel. Meh.

Instead, there are still 10hr 3 days with a wasted day in the middle. I don’t have pairing # off the top of my head that highlights the worst. But here’s another DEN trip in May. D3505. Pays 12:36. Only pays because of the trip rig. With the 4:12 CDT at Skywest, that same trip (again only at 4:12 a day instead of 5) would have paid minimum 12:36. If you took block day 1 and then added 5 for the layover day, then 5 more day 3 (since it’s just 1 leg); it should add up (8:04+5+5) to 18:04. Instead, you’re only paid the trip rig to true up to 12:36, and waste a day in Charlotte. And only averaging to paid 4:12 a day, which was MDG at some regionals. Weak.

And if we’re talking about rig; we had all that at skw. Trip rig wasn’t quite as good, 4:1 TAFB. But another area they did better at was a daily 2:1 duty rig. Rarely saw trip rig kick in but duty rig did all the time. Sometimes baked into the pairing when it was built, but more often than not due to daily delays.

Originally Posted by dracir1

Average min day would help. But then the company would counteract w/ redeye pairings that report at 0001, depart at 0101 fly for 5 hours, have a 11 hour layover then return to origin to land before 2359. The result would be a brutal 10 hr redeye turn. All they would need to do to accomplish this is slide most of the existing Vegas redeye turns forward to report at 0001. Or maybe even a double red-eye turn for a 15 hour 3 day. The company would then have a TON of 10 hr 2 days or 15 hr 3 day of which the flying would be as close to 10/15 hours as possible.

What we REALLY need is a contract that will limit the drastic changes the company makes in pairing philosophy. Let's be honest - a computer creates the pairings in an optimizer according to some predetermined parameters. The parameters are many - # of days, layover times, average credit per day, etc. - and whatever contract provision the ALPA negotiators come up with will be countered by F9 that will negate whatever adjustments the contract has to the max extent. In fact, i'm convinced that the NC did their best on our last contract to "correct" the previous but here we are discussing areas where it is deficient.

Change the rate, vacation, LTD, DC, etc. Yeah, that's all well and good. But what is really needed is a contact that says something to the effect of "the company must will create pairings according to the following parameters: " and those parameters ensure that the company doesn't change pairing construction philosophy.

Let's get out in front this time.

Originally Posted by fcoolaiddrinker

the company won’t have much incentive to do your first scenario with both duty and calendar rig. Try again. I’m not saying there’s zero negative scenarios but that shouldn’t be one of them.

Originally Posted by Xdashdriver

Then the ability for trip splitting will go with it.

Originally Posted by Salukipilot4590

Absolutely perfect!

Originally Posted by planejoe

Official contract opener on July 25, hopefully doesn't get cancelled. Any thoughts on what the company "bargaining goals" will be?