planejoe

Since there are now a couple of threads going off course and into discussions about the contract, figured it deserved its own thread.

Glad the union is surveying us pilots. One of the questions was: How long do you expect negotiations to take? With several airlines debatably wrapping up their negotiations, how long do you expect it take for F9 to come to an agreement? Or how long are you willing to hold on?

JoeFever1

18 months from July early opener seems reasonable. In that time I’ll be saving money and getting prepared to hit the submit button on a bunch of apps. I hope and imagine I’m not alone. Balls in Indigos court, we’ll learn what they want to do with F9 pretty quick.

spooldup

In my survey I put about 15-18 months. My apps are updated and will be ready to be sent out by that time as well. They can choose what they want.

It doesn't take much to give us a competitive contract and management better get their ducks in a row or a lot of people will be leaving when we find out what the new one is.

Also, I made sure to let them know in the "any other opinions" box at the end, that if negotiations took longer than 3 years, I will be seeing myself out anyways. As well as making sure that our pay isnt ratified at 2023 rates in 2026 and that we are equal with other airlines' 2026 rates.

AncientAliens

F9 has already told you what they want to do. From the earnings call last week...

​​​​​​Jamie Baker

Hey, good afternoon, everybody. So, Barry, at Investor Day, you leaned pretty heavy into work life attributes that were helping you navigate the pilot shortage better than some of your competitors. Several months have elapsed since then, several new contracts have been reached. Spirit admits that it's raised isn't particularly helping things. I'm just wondering if your pilot staffing confidence is unfazed by anything you've seen since Investor Day?

Barry Biffle

It's unfazed. We remain in a surplus position. And we're really proud of what we offer and nothing's changed in that area. And in fact, we were just reviewing it earlier today and the attrition is right on target. And I think you just have to remember we have competitive compensation if you look over the first 10-plus years of their careers. We've also got a better work life balance as you mentioned with more days off than practically anybody else in the industry. I think we're averaging in the -- starts in the 12 range days per month for average bid line holders. So no, we have a robust recruiting and we don't have the attrition that you're seeing at some of these other carriers.

Jamie Baker

Perfect. And just as a follow up, historically, most U.S. airlines did not accrue for higher wages, new contracts. It caught me by surprise, as that convention appeared to change in the last year or so. Obviously, doesn't make sense before you reach your amendable date, but have you given any thought as to whether you might guide 2024 CASM reflective of a new contract, or will you just wait until it's ratified, which was the old school way of doing things?

Jimmy Dempsey

Jamie, it's Jimmy Dempsey here.

Jamie Baker

Hi, Jimmy.

Jimmy Dempsey

I mean, we -- how's it going? We haven't -- we need to open the contract. The contract expires at the end of the year and the early opener for the pilots is in July. I mean, we'll address next year's guidance when we get closer to next year. Clearly, we've -- we're aware of what's happening in the pilot world. We are staffing the airline very effectively, managing our contract and our relationship with the pilots in a very effective manner. Some of those other contracts were open for quite some period of time and also had deals on the table that showed substantial increases in in pay. We are some ways away from doing that, so -- but…

JoeFever1

BB is a compulsive misinformation spewer and he’s been reciting that false line for years. That doesn’t phase me. The rest sounds about right to me. Why account for something that you don’t have a number or date for? It will also be 2025 18 months from July of 23.
Not saying you aren’t right, and I do believe they think they can hire and train their way through this, but it’s also my belief that is not actually possible. It won’t work.
I like what I have here. I do not think it’s worth it for me to leave just yet. It’s a bold strategy Cotton, let’s see if it pays off.

gzsg

Frontier management lives in Lala land. Frontier will not be able to grow and will probably shrink.

The pilot pool is dwindling to zero.

Any Frontier pilot can now immediately go to UAL, DAL or AA and be a captain in 1 year.

VASBYT

We have not grown since January.

Stayontarget

Incorrect on the first and second part. You should read the ALPA magazine and emails.

Somewhat correct on the second part. Not all bases are created equal.



IMO Waiting until the next contract seems like a very bad idea if you intend on leaving for a poor or delayed contract. You’re betting thousands of younger and less experienced than you to be filled seniority spots that the total compensation package will be good enough. You’re intentionally putting yourself on or near the backside of the wave. And for what? The same $30 bucks an hour the other airline will almost surely already have? And this is being said from someone who likes it here…

Blueskies67

I think Frontier’s plan is to expect to get most if not all pilots through their cadet program in the future. They just need 24-36 months to wait for these guys to get their 1500 hours. They get the keep them for 3 years and then off to a legacy they go. Same process the regionals did for years. I’m not happy about this but it’s pretty obvious what’s going on. It probably won’t work out for them but they’ll let the experiment play out a few years. Guys need to realistically not expect a contract until 2026. It sucks but it’s the reality of the situation. We only get a contract when the company needs it. Not much ALPA or the NC can do about it.

Stayontarget

Yup! We disagree with the contract timeline but the principles with the cadet program we see eye to eye.