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Old 05-26-2023, 07:54 AM
  #21  
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what happened to the rumors that "Barry wants to get this done early, and we will be Delta+" etc etc ad nauseum.

Not one airline (to include FedEx/UPS) CEO, in history, or at least in the last 20 years, has every "paid early" higher wages to the Pilot group.

"Frontier is in great financial shape" etc etc, while important, means much more when the employee group is allowed to participate in the fruits of their labor.
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Old 05-26-2023, 09:29 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by spooldup View Post
I too want to make this my career, but the fact I am forced to "tune out the noise" when I am at work and just get in the cockpit and fly while our contract gate agents treat people like crap, company treats people like crap, and the last line of defense is supposed to be "smile more"? thats horrific... Im basically giving myself another year to see what happens, probably until the next contract, if we get a subpar contract or things don't change around here, I will be gone as well. I am more than happy to give my next 25 years to another company.

I want to enjoy this place, all my friends say it is a great model and company message. But then say the only thing holding it back is how the gate agents treat people and how the company treats people. Southwest was successful for a reason, now look what has happened to them. All of these other airlines are successful because they treat AT LEAST their passengers well. But when you treat both passengers and employees badly. Im not sure, but it surely isn't "delivering low fares done right.".
"Being forced to tune out the noise" is an excellent description of what I find myself doing as well. It has gotten really old.
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Old 05-26-2023, 09:52 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Aero1900 View Post
Bro, just leave now. You know how seniority works.


We are going to end up with a subpar contract. If you waiting to see if we end up with a Delta like contract, don't bother waiting. Leave now. Its going to take 3 years and it's not going to be Delta/AA rates.


Reality

Gonna have to agree with Aero on this one...if you (or anyone else in these forums) is entertaining the idea of leaving you need to get the ball rolling NOW. Even with the crazy amount of hiring going on it still takes close to six months from application to class date. UAL is currently hiring 8 pilots per day! AMR and DAL are similar. Even if you applied today you would still have at least half a Frontier's seniority list worth of pilots in front of you from now until you get on property. If you get offered a class date somewhere you obviously don't have to take it but at least give yourself the option. Best case F9 comes to its senses and a contract gets done by the end of the year but what are the chances that happens? I had 8 years on the table when I left and only time will tell if that was the right decision. Things could always go south quickly but so far my only regret is I didn't try to make the jump earlier. It probably cost me 2,000 spots on the SL. Don't make the same mistake. Like other people on here have said, if you are unhappy at F9 going to a legacy isn't some magic elixir that is going to make everything better but I can assure you from experience you will be treated like a professional.
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Old 05-26-2023, 03:43 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Aero1900 View Post
Bro, just leave now. You know how seniority works.

We are going to end up with a subpar contract. If you waiting to see if we end up with a Delta like contract, don't bother waiting. Leave now. Its going to take 3 years and it's not going to be Delta/AA rates.

Reality
This is 100% correct. Waiting to leave only hurts yourself. Get out as soon as possible. We will be at the bottom once again. Especially with the same people running our negotiations as last time.
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Old 05-26-2023, 05:11 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by 1900RT View Post
Especially with the same people running our negotiations as last time.
What have you done about this besides post on an anonymous
forum?

Our NC is only as good as our MEC, which is only as
good as our pilot group?

I see all these people sniping about the union. Honest question, what have you guys done for the union? If the union and NC are so bad, why hasn’t the pilot group done anything about it in the past 5 years? I see a lot of gripes in this area, but am truly befuddled by the swipes at the NC on the precipice of opening negotiations.
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Old 05-26-2023, 05:54 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by AntiCompanyMan View Post
What have you done about this besides post on an anonymous
forum?

Our NC is only as good as our MEC, which is only as
good as our pilot group?

I see all these people sniping about the union. Honest question, what have you guys done for the union? If the union and NC are so bad, why hasn’t the pilot group done anything about it in the past 5 years? I see a lot of gripes in this area, but am truly befuddled by the swipes at the NC on the precipice of opening negotiations.
Absatively.
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Old 05-26-2023, 06:58 PM
  #27  
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Yeah, I really don't like the b|tching about the union and the NC. Why on God's earth people are directing their anger at the union and not the company is beyond me.

The union is doing the best they can. They are having to operate in an environment where the law governs virtually every aspect of what they can do and the law generally favors the business. The RLA was designed to keep the trains a chuggin', not make train engineers rich.

Please give our union and our NC a chance, patience, understanding and respect. They are going to work hard on our behalf. Direct your anger and frustration towards the company, not them. They want the same thing you do.
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Old 05-26-2023, 08:47 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Aero1900 View Post
Yeah, I really don't like the b|tching about the union and the NC. Why on God's earth people are directing their anger at the union and not the company is beyond me.

The union is doing the best they can. They are having to operate in an environment where the law governs virtually every aspect of what they can do and the law generally favors the business. The RLA was designed to keep the trains a chuggin', not make train engineers rich.

Please give our union and our NC a chance, patience, understanding and respect. They are going to work hard on our behalf. Direct your anger and frustration towards the company, not them. They want the same thing you do.
Yup. I agree. I haven’t dove into thier AIP yet because it’s a bit pointless until it’s at least a ta but there’s glaring QOL holes imo. Vac, some training (new hire, transition) sick (I believe it’s 5 credit a month) ja ability, increased ALV builds, ect. Reassignment premium original footprint and beyond (we have beyond) is nice but if it’s easier to get reassigned who cares. I just want to go home. If We can get to their payrates, fix a few res, and min calendar issues we’ll be fine.
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Old 05-26-2023, 09:15 PM
  #29  
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What FCO said. Here is to hoping DEN realizes that sooner than later though
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Old 05-27-2023, 06:06 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by GhostRider22 View Post
Very Sad. My 3-4 yr FO’s who always wanted to make a career here are now putting apps out. When I ask why, they tell me it’s not the money. They say, “They just can’t work for a company who has such little respect for its customers and employees anymore” Not quite sure how this model keeps good people anymore. I just know we need good people to be successful in the future. I hope those above can figure out how to balance low cost with maintaining a respectful and positive environment for the passengers and employees.
To his point, I just read this article. When our customers get angry, they don't just angry at the gate agents, they are angry at everything "Frontier" including pilots and flight attendants. I have had a few passengers tell me straight to my face how much we s u c k and ruined their weekend. BB says 90% of our customers return. I find that hard to believe.

I would bail as well if I was a little younger, regardless of my tenor at Frontier.

https://www.denverpost.com/2023/05/2...es-last-place/

Kudo's to this pilot, because I have done the same several times, "The pilot then intervened, telling gate agents he was going to override their refusal. On his phone, he reached a live “passenger planning” official who approved a re-boarding of passengers denied access, including a Colorado Springs couple with a 6-month-old child."
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