Originally Posted by shrsailplanes

So, we can get market pay and close our doors. At least we will have a couple nice paychecks before we are on the street.

or we can wait until all the damage that BB did is undone then worry about an industry standard contract where we can get many nice paychecks.

Originally Posted by shrsailplanes

So, we can get market pay and close our doors. At least we will have a couple nice paychecks before we are on the street.

or we can wait until all the damage that BB did is undone then worry about an industry standard contract where we can get many nice paychecks.

Originally Posted by Hedley

The vast majority of the industry profits were made by Delta and United. Allegiant and Sun Country have mostly stayed (for the lack of a better term) in their lane. They tend to be smaller and focus on the secondary leisure markets and not try to go up against the big 4 in the larger ones. Should LCC’s focus on markets with less competition from the big 4, or get in the ring with them and try to win? If going up against the big 4 in the larger markets, you’ll incur higher cost which must be either taken from the consumer or the balance sheet, including labor. If prices have to rise to cover the increased cost of doing business, I can see where the price gap between the LCC’s and legacies shrink and the consumer just chooses the legacy. I honestly don’t know what the answer is, and I hope you guys eventually get a great contract since a rising tide raises all ships. Unfortunately, as long as the company can staff the flying and until they can consistently return to profitability, the NMB will be sympathetic to their arguments and this will drag on.

Originally Posted by dracir1

I
Third, if the company can't "afford" a raise right now, why weren't we offered one when they could? ..

Originally Posted by shrsailplanes

F9 has $500M cash (and falling), $5B in debt (and increasing) and has not made money in straight quarters for awhile. Those are diverging numbers that are not sustainable and have put F9 in substantial financial stress. The SLB gravy train is in serious trouble if F9 is considered a financial risk to banks. The steaming pile of doo-doo that Barry left must be corrected before a contract.

The attitude of “I don’t care about F9’s financial problems. Industry standard contract NOW!!!” is one of looking at the problem with blinders on.

Originally Posted by dracir1

We have more problems than just the loyalty program...

WE NEED 3 class seating (instead of our now 1 eventually going to 2). We need first class, economy plus (in which the seat has 2" more of legroom and a USB plug) and our regular seats. Putting in the new seats would probably only require losing 2 rows of seats total of which the cost could be made up w/ the increased cost of the economy plus ticket. So, 320s would seat 180. This added flexibility is what the customer wants (for now). We can't sell what we don't offer.

Second, we need more than 2 configs of aircraft. With 186 and 230+ seating, we don't have a more economical option for lower yielding destinations (like Omaha, Missoula, Eagle, El Paso, etc.). We either need a regional (like Republic) or to merge w/ Avelo. Thereby, we'll be able to fly ATL to BUF 2x a day w/ a 120 seater vs once every 2 days w/ a 186 seater (that is less than 50% full). Either that, or we stop going to these smaller airports altogether. I'd lean more toward keeping the route vs. ditching it as we've already invested the time/$ for it. But, we need less bases (those that we have, we need at LEAST 5 dedicated gates minimum) and more trips. Not sure why ATL is so important but rumor has it we're poised for more gates - we'll see...

Third, gotta pay the ticket counter, gate agents, ground/baggage handlers and telephone cust service agents more. No other way around it, we need better people who will stay around longer doing these jobs. And we MUST be catered at each base. It's 2025, I flew last week w/ no catering and a plane full of people for over 3 hours.

Fourth, the loyalty program needs to MEAN something. Tons of miles to be used on F9 isn't as valuable as some people think - especially when you factor in the airline has horrible performance, no wifi, blackout dates, no lounges and limited network abilities. I would presume a Big 4 mile is probably worth about 3 F9 miles right about now. Giving away miles is only part of the solution (and will mean more as the airline gets better).

Originally Posted by Higher

So basically the idea is to become a "major like" airline. that's not our business, we are ULCC. By the way, the Majors don't make profit from flying but from many other perks that they have under their umbrella such as Credit Cards, fidelity programs, bank deals etc...

The ULCC business is based on simplicity, one type of aircraft, efficiency not only by the ground personnel but by the flight crew also.

​​​​​I believe that everybody agrees that adjustments have to be made but not in a matter to abandon the ULCC business.

Originally Posted by dracir1

We have more problems than just the loyalty program...

WE NEED 3 class seating (instead of our now 1 eventually going to 2). We need first class, economy plus (in which the seat has 2" more of legroom and a USB plug) and our regular seats. Putting in the new seats would probably only require losing 2 rows of seats total of which the cost could be made up w/ the increased cost of the economy plus ticket. So, 320s would seat 180. This added flexibility is what the customer wants (for now). We can't sell what we don't offer.

Second, we need more than 2 configs of aircraft. With 186 and 230+ seating, we don't have a more economical option for lower yielding destinations (like Omaha, Missoula, Eagle, El Paso, etc.). We either need a regional (like Republic) or to merge w/ Avelo. Thereby, we'll be able to fly ATL to BUF 2x a day w/ a 120 seater vs once every 2 days w/ a 186 seater (that is less than 50% full). Either that, or we stop going to these smaller airports altogether. I'd lean more toward keeping the route vs. ditching it as we've already invested the time/$ for it. But, we need less bases (those that we have, we need at LEAST 5 dedicated gates minimum) and more trips. Not sure why ATL is so important but rumor has it we're poised for more gates - we'll see...

Third, gotta pay the ticket counter, gate agents, ground/baggage handlers and telephone cust service agents more. No other way around it, we need better people who will stay around longer doing these jobs. And we MUST be catered at each base. It's 2025, I flew last week w/ no catering and a plane full of people for over 3 hours.

Fourth, the loyalty program needs to MEAN something. Tons of miles to be used on F9 isn't as valuable as some people think - especially when you factor in the airline has horrible performance, no wifi, blackout dates, no lounges and limited network abilities. I would presume a Big 4 mile is probably worth about 3 F9 miles right about now. Giving away miles is only part of the solution (and will mean more as the airline gets better).

Originally Posted by nene

Does the ULCC get cheaper fuel, gate leases, plane parts? Or is it just the employees that have to be ULCC?

Originally Posted by Aero1900

Ummm.... have you seen our gates? Have you you been to DEN, AUS or TTN? We absolutely pay less for our gate leases.