Frontier
 

Anyone have info on how Frontier is coming along with their restructuring and is there and exit date for them to come out of Chap 11? Just sent my resume in to Lynx but I'm not sure how the mother ship is doing. Thanks and good luck to all.

Unfortunately, the folks I know over there expect to exit chapter 11 later this year...by liquidating the company, if fuel prices don't come down.

Nah, Rick....no Chp. 7 for them, if fuel doesn't come down??? Really???

A couple of pilot friends from Frontier told me that Frontier reported loss of $33 million in April/May (thats without paying most of it's bills), cash is going fast & the markets are not willing to provide Frontier with additional financing & the furloughs announced are probably just the beginning.

I sure do hate to see it, but it looks like Chapter 7 unfortunately may be the only exit for Frontier.

Looks like this fuel crisis is going to eliminate a great pilot group and a good company overall. Times suck!

The problem with going BK nowadays is that no one wants to throw money into an airline when it's pretty obvious that the whole industry can't cope with fuel prices like they are now.

UAL could be in the same boat by the end of the year. Not much left to mortgage and little prospects for getting any kind of profit in the future. Not a whole lot of lenders who see that as a good risk.

The airline industry is in a high stakes game of "last man standing."

Last man standing indeed

Seem like Frontier would be a good merger partner for someone smaller, like JBlue or AirTran, but I guess at this point it's just cheaper and easier to sit back and then buy the assets in a liquidation fire sale.

I understand that after declaring Chapter 11, Frontier was given a 30 day moratorium on making their debt payments. As soon as that 30 day period was over, they began to make their payments again on schedule. So, if that is true, they have only enough cash to do this and to make their payroll and rents/leases which presumably were negotiated to lower amounts in Chapter 11.

WheelsUp - You wrote

>>UAL could be in the same boat by the end of the year. Not much left to mortgage<<

I am told that United's umencumbered assets are greater than any of the other major carriers, except for American and Southwest. Have you heard differently?

None of the U.S.carriers have a bright prospect, but United's is bad mostly due to extremely poor (and greedy) management, in my opinion.

UAL appears to be in better shape to survive the current short-term bleeding out process than many other airlines. Us Air and AA were listed as most vulnerable among the legacies.

This has nothing to do with management, product, or business strategy, only short-term liquid assets vs. short-term obligations. Again, it's simply about rapid bleeding out...nobody will have time to really re-engineer their business to adapt to the new price of oil.

Airways is probably weak on cash from the merger, AA because they didn't do CH.11 when it was all the rage.

DIP financing?
 

1.) Has Frontier secured DIP financing yet?

2.) If they haven't secured this financing, which must be hard to come by w/ the current credit crisis, what are their options?

I've heard that by the end of the summer, if they dont' find someone to finance them they're done.

sadsad

Dip
 

Who would want to finance them? They are worth more dead than alive.

SKyHigh

I agree. I hate to say it, but the odds of DIP financing at this point are slim and none. Also, the creditors at some point will want to cut their losses and ask the bankruptcy judge to simply pull the plug. Better to get something on their return than have F9 linger until the very last dollar is spent.

Hi Everyone!

This is my first post and my husband is a 10 year captain with Frontier. Needless to say, I'm scared (I'm a SAHM).

Does anyone know if a company liquidates if unemployment can still be collected? I'm thinking not since the company pays for it, right?

This sucks and my heart goes out to all airline families. Big HUGS!!

Don't count Chickens
 

The same was said about TWA in the 80's and yet they survived on their own until 2001.
The same was said about America West when they went into BK in the the Fall of 1991 and they survived..
In the early 90's USAir (pre merge) was losing over 2.5 million per day and did so for years and they stood 2 trips through BK until the 2006 merger.
Continetal was "on the Brink" when they went into their second BK in the early 90's after the CAL Lite fiasco and now they are one of the premier US PAX carriers. NWA was in BIG trouble in the late 80's when Cheechi through a leverage buy out, took a company with the best Cash position and put them into heavy debt over night. They survived and prospered until events after 9/11.
Every one of these carriers were "done" within weeks, yet they managed to survive for years.

I realize the environment is different and things look dire for the entire industry. This industry is fickle but No one is gone until it happens. Let's not start the funeral until the EKG shows a flat line.............and then only after a couple of failed electric shock attempts.

I have ridden Frontier on many occasions and they offer a fine product.
Good luck to you all.

Technically, yes, your husband can collect unemployment if the company liquidates. Please check with your state's unemployment office for specifics. Each state has different hoops for claimants to jump through, and I know only about Washington State law. Good luck.

OK I give up. What is a "SAHM"

Yes you can, or rather, your husband can collect unemplyment benefits.

Never mind. I figured it out. Since I am not a stay at home mom I was not familiar with this term.

SAHM- Something at-home-mom?
 

Hey Pilotswife,

My company based in TX shut down and liquidated and the state of TX paid me in TN because I worked for it and earned it.

Your husband earned his too, which, God forbid, he might have to use. But you should definitely receive benefits either from your state or the state of CO.

So, does SAHM = something..... at home Mom?

Good luck to your family and us all.

Take Care,

B727DRVR

SAHM = Stay At Home Mom...I believe.

All employers are required by law to pay into the 'unemployement system' for whatever respective state you file your taxes. If a company files Chp. 7, it's not like those monies will be taken back from the state, they're already there in the fund, and I think employers pay quarterly.

Now, with the lovely case of TMA back in the day (leading up to their Chpt. 7) it's my understanding they weren't paying into the state funds regularly and that wasn't found out until after their Chp. 7. But I'm sure that's not the case with Frontier......TMA was a whole notha' ballgame/mess.

God forbid, if Chp. 7 happens for Frontier, your husband should get his unemployment, however, I pray for you and Frontier it doesn't get to that point.

Thanks everyone! Yes, SAHM means Stay At Home Mom!

Good Call.

I posted this in different thread about 5 weeks ago, I'll paraphrase here:

My sister is a managing director at UAL. During a senior staff meeting in mid May they announced that management would be cut by about 25%. Three weeks later UAL publicly announced they would be laying off 1600 management employees and 950 pilots.

During the same meeting it was mentioned that "if things don't get better by summer" UAL was "going out of business".

I pray and hope this is not the case. In spite of the fact my sister is management (you should see Christmas time around my house!) She has spent over 23 years there and loves the company. I would not be a happy thing for me. But that's the current thinking at UAL HQ.

I think the only way that Frontier will be able to survive another year is if the following happens:

1. Gas prices go down.
2. All of us in Colorado stop flying Southwest.

The local travel agencies are suggesting, and the media is reporting, that people should not book flights on Frontier for the holidays. I, for one, will never set foot on a Southwest flight to or from Denver as long as my Larry the Lynx credit card sits in my wallet.

[quote=RedeyeAV8r;424645]

I have ridden Frontier on many occasions and they offer a fine product.

I'm sure it is a great product but that is irrelevant. I have seen many references on these boards as to how such and such offers a good/great/fine product. That may be so but, if they cannot make a profit it does not matter.
Although many in the public feel that cheap airfare with great service is an entitlement - airlines are not non-pofit corporations or utilities - not yet anyway. When was the last time anybody watched a movie on their "Beta" player? When Beta was fighting VHS in the late 70's and early 80's format wars Beta was considered a better overall quality product - oh well. Best of luck to all pilots - we are all going to need it.
Scoop

Beta, much like HD DVD recently, lost not because of better competition but because they couldn't/wouldn't get the support of the porn industry.

so frontier needs the support of the porn industry.

Well if they had porn on their IFE equipment they moist likely would turn a profit, but the seats would probably be a little sticky.