BusSkyflyer

Question for SWA pilots: About a year ago I spoke to a SWA pilot about mergers, and he insisted that any airline SWA purchased, all pilots would be stapled to the bottom of the list. So I asked the question: Do you mean to tell me that hypothetically speaking if SWA purchased American Airlines, SWAPA would require a B-777 captain to be reserve B-737 FO? He did not give me an answer. Would any SWA pilot provide an answer and/or what criteria should be used for a staple vs a "1 for x" integration method?

NoJoy

If your a Lynx pilot, being "stapled" would be a very good thing.

Patch

I don't think any of us (SWA pilots) can tell you what the criteria should or should not be. There are entirely too many moving parts involved with any specific merger or acquisition to create a magical set of rules. In the end, it doesn't really matter because the company is going to do what they want when it comes to SLI. We're simply the bus drivers. However, in this deal, we as the pilot group (so they say) have the power to say no and the deal will fall through. I'm not looking for spears here, but the concensus of the guys I've talked to want a staple with pay and domicile protection for the Frontier guys. I wouldn't be completely opposed to some sort of SLI for the upper echelon pilots, but a DOH SLI is a complete and utter screw job to the younger pilots of the successfull airline bailing out the bankrupt one. I personally think this deal will get voted down by the majority of us unless it's a staple. -- Just my 2 cents
We're not the socialist States of America. (just yet.) In life, there are winners and losers in business. The answer is always somewhere in the middle. In the end, I do hope we take on their pilots in some way shape or form. They're a great bunch. Cheers..

Patch

C17MooseDriver

I have to agree with Patch.

From what I've read from company emails, unless we as a labor union approve this deal, the deal will fall through. How true this is I don't know. But this does give SWAPA some leverage.

It seems to me, that most pilots want a staple with pay and domicile protection for the frontier guys, instead of just preferential interviewing.

BusSkyflyer

Thanks Patch for your reply.
"there are winners and losers in business" as you stated.
So is SWA winning or losing in Denver? What facts support your position?
Regardless of what "the company does," would YOU prefer having the entire A councourse and subsequent pricing power created by not having 3 airlines trying to take each other out which might result in greater job security if it meant that F9 Captains remained CA's after the transition to SWA Boeing?
Or would you prefer SWA pass on the deal?

G-Dog

Well, the deal will have to be done in the next week or so. That seems fast for the kind of hill that must be climbed by both pilot groups.

BusSkyflyer

So, if two hospitals merge, and the hospital increases patient count and revenue from the combination of the two, should a heart surgeon be forced to regress to become an intern on rotation to allow the junior docs with less experience to become the "replacement heart surgeon?" In the context of SWA/F9, if the SWA pilots refuse/vote for staple to bottom of the list for all, why would a 54 year old want to agree to a reserve FO slot? Kinda places SWA in a disadvantage as the US domestic market continues to consolidate.

FlyingViking

You haven't been around long, have you?

Ask an old TWA guy if he agrees with you, bet he will buy you a beer....

Patch

I haven't seen the raw numbers, but I've been informed (mostly through union news) that we are NOT winning in terms of the all mighty dollar in Denver at this time. That being said, we ARE winning in the broad spectrum in Denver because of the opportunity bestowed upon us to now acquire F9 and take the "players" from 3 to 2 (UAL and SWA). I really think SWA will counter anything Republic has to offer. Denver is too huge for us. Being a solely domestic carrier with a hub near the center of the country is huge. Make no mistake, SWA wants to rule Denver.
Would I support some of the Capts staying Capts? I personally would if it meant the deal would fall through otherwise. Denver is too important. However, I do think it would still get voted down by the masses. I would like our union to come to the table with the suggestion that I mentioned earlier (staple, pay protection (FO pay raise)/domicile protection). Personally, if the F9 union turned it down, I think we counter with a carrot for their senior Capts. Don't ask me the percentage because I really don't know. As a SWA guy, my family and my company come before F9's -- not being rude... just stating how I feel. On the flip side, I believe F9 should fight for everything they feel they deserve, weigh all the options, and then vote for what THEY feel is in THEIR best interest. My guess is that in the end when push comes to shove, they'll vote to come aboard SWA at the bottom of the list or face the unfortunate low paying future of working for Republic. It's a sad time for F9, but again, I have to look out for what's best for my family and be thankful that this time around, I'm on the winning side. Make no mistake, I don't drink the SWA koolaid. I'm well aware that SWA could be the one in troubled times down the road. Who knows. The Bottom line is that I expect each side to strive for themselves and then vote with a clear understanding of the consequences if the result doesn't go their way.
On as side note, I feel real bad for our poolies right now. In my opinion, the F9 guys should go above them. I'm sure there are other guys I work with that feel strongly the other way. I've got 4 buddies in the pool right now. I'm glad they have military jobs to fall back onto in the mean time.

Patch

hyperboy

Patch-

I really enjoy your insight and honesty as well as your opinion. It's nice to see someone looking at the whole picture and not just "their" picture. It's refreshing and appreciated.