FAULTPUSH

You might have noticed three things:
1. Your side of the equation is making money.
2. At the height of the concessions, my pay cut didn't undermine the US Airways, Sun Country, Spirit, or Virgin rates.
3. Our work rules are a long way from undercutting yours.

That said, I truly wish you luck in your fight, but quit trying to stir things up by spreading rumors.

FAULTPUSH

So if you had to do it again, what would you do differently?

"A smart man learns from his mistakes. A wise man learns from the mistakes of others."

ToiletDuck

This is why BB wants to keep you separate. Whipsawing and neg. concessions from an already low paid group. Taking concessions only brings down the rest of the industry. BB knows if you were IBT right now they would have told him to go shove it. Don't think this is the first time he's walked up to his pilots asking for smaller rates. We'll tell him to pound sand until the doors closed.

This is shameful I'd rather die standing than live on my knees. Yet for some reason you guys seem to want to stay separate. When's the last time FAPA gave any of you good advice?

ToiletDuck

It just created the worst scope in the industry that led to the takeover by a regional. Midwest guys fought hard and didn't give anything; it was taken.

JoeMerchant

Sounds great...It's nice to finally start hearing this from Delta and United pilots.

That being said, wouldn't it be "easier" to start within a "brand" first? If we can't do this within a brand, what makes us think we can do it across brands and unions?

Pineapple Guy

Yes, and I think we should. But my definition may not agree with yours. I would merger lists by career W2, or better yet, career ALPA dues $$. Not in ALPA? Sorry, no deal.

That way, regionals get integrated better than a staple, which is what many major pilots want; but less than a pure DOH, which is what many regional pilots want. I think merging by ALPA dues $$ is a fair compromise.

zoooropa

Duck, you still have not corrected your last completely inaccurate post.

At least you are consistent.

Bedford doesn't want to keep the operations seperate for a whipsaw, he wants to keep the operations seperate because the brand is bleeding cash at $100+ oil. The biz plan was based upon $80, and oil went up to $115 plus a $20-30 crack spread.

The RJET BoD will not pour any more money into the brand unless the cash burn is stopped. They have already dumped $200 million into this experiment in the last 24 months, with nothing to show for their investment.

Have you sat down with the RJET BoD?

How about the third party consultants that are rebuilding the business plan?

How about the BK consultants that RJET is currently working with if this thing folds up?

You have absolutely ZERO idea what you are talking about.

You paranoia has also completely clouded your judgement.

You actually typed a sentence about "bringing down the industry". Think about that for a second, then open your Chautauqua CBA (skip past your almighty scope) and look at your pay rates for the 190.

You simply don't know what the Frontier pilots have been through over the past several years, yet you don't hesistate to judge them and spew vitriol.

Dougdrvr

Here comes Seabury!!!!!!!!!

Wouldn't the karma be fascinating if the F9 pilots negotiated a pay rate for the 190s that's even less than Repubics?

ToiletDuck

See: http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/re...tml#post997912

You have a habit of telling people they are completely off basis. How's that been working out?


Who mentioned operations? I'm talking integration. All it does allow is for one of the groups to negotiate concessions after having already taken them in the past.



If your union leadership thinks pilot pay will turn Frontier from red to black then they are very short sighted. Try his lease payments etc. Why give it to him now? Force him to take it in BK.

No I haven't. Have you? I've asked multiple times about your credibility and you've yet to say. All I know is your past facts weren't very accurate. How many times can you rebuild the same company in the same market?


Paranoia? What Paranoia? Are you are or are you not talking about concessions? I said over a year ago when yall were stating you didn't want integration that BB would use that against you.

yes and we're in talks for a better contract. Not a worse. And yes, even though you probably still don't see it, scope is something to worry about.

First all I heard was how Frontier was here to save us because all our jobs were doomed Followed by how you wanted to be kept separate from the lowly regional pilots. Then you followed that up with a proposal for integration that was a complete staple saying we hadn't earned the right to be above any of you. Then during the integration talks you did nothing but blast my union and leadership about anything and everything. Then my phone starts ringing from a polling company because you want me to join FAPA/ALPA because you don't want to be part of the IBT. After that doesn't work you start saying that you don't care about the regional pilots and feel that flying should be farmed out to the lowest bidder. Once the award came out you started complaining how you've been robbed and started praying for the single carrier to fall through because you don't want to be involved with lowly regional pilots. After that came through it was shortly followed by a lawsuit because even though binding means binding you feel that's only the case if you had gotten your complete staple job. Now you're hoping the 190s get pulled from our certificate and don't mind if the company hires off the streets to fill them even though that's a clear violation of our scope.

My vitriol? Are you kidding me? That's like a US East asking the West guys to feel sorry for them. I'm sorry but over the course of the past year you've been doing everything you can to spit on us and play by your own rules. You talk about wanting to work together etc but then only do what, from your point of view, is in your best interest. You are USAPA (Maybe they should be your write-in). I hope you don't expect sympathy for your decisions.

FAULTPUSH

Can you please translate this into something that makes sense? The only nonsense I can make of it is that you're saying that RAH bought F9 because of the pilots' scope language.

That makes as much sense as me saying that I didn't get a call from IBT's polling company because you don't want us to have any say in our representation.

You're either lying, or misinformed. Go read the proposal.

1. FAPA has never claimed that.
2. OK, maybe you're not lying or misinformed. Your lack of reason is starting to make sense. It reminds me of Cartman pretending to be handicapped to try to get into the special Olympics "How should I know what's wrong with me, Mom? I'm #% retarded."