JoeMerchant

Actually, that sounds very similar to what I support...I only advocate DOH against a staple.

Explain how "career W2" or "career ALPA dues $$" works IYO...I'm all ears...

ImTumbleweed

Any chance of folding military guys into your plan?

What about a mil guy who serves for 15 years. Could he be given any seniority if/when he decides to leave the mil and fly for the airlines? I would think they should be given some consideration.

Not a flame at all. Just curious if there is way to accomodate those who serve our nation (by flying) onto your list.

Cheers,
ImTumbleweed

Phuz

Bedford is a joke.

This whole thing is a sham.

I don't care what you call it and how you organize it, Republic/Frontier/Shuttle/Chataqua is *one* company. RJET has 1 leader, 1 operational structure, and 1 set of shareholders.

For Bedford to say that Frontier must make concessions or dissapear while the rest of his amalgamation stays alive is absurd!

"I have the money to pay everyone else, but not you guys".

Bedford is the epitome of a wolf in sheep's clothes. His use of religious overtones is carefully designed to distract "the little people" and make them believe that his intentions are genuinely good. This dude is downright evil and I look forward to his Jimmy Swaggart moment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1OXAi7rNMg

Bucking Bar

Here you go:

YouTube - Bedford's toothless wonder preaching up a sermon [Best Of]‬‏

forgot to bid

Amen to that.

If RAH is declared STS then overnight they're in violation of Delta's scope and I'm sure UCALs, AMRs and USAir.

There won't be any money to pay anyone.

If you're going to be a CEO and an "example", you better know what you're doing.

I think churches should have a sign out front that say "no perfect people allowed" but at the same time, as a leader, you will barely be afforded the right to be imperfect while not allowed at all to be intentionally imperfect. Especially since everyone rightfully see's being an "example" as more important than a CEO. That's not to say that someone who wants to be "example" can't be or should be a CEO but quite the opposite.

Someone who wants to be an "example" should be the kind of person you want to have as your CEO.

Maybe not your drinking buddy, but definitely your CEO. And the PIC of the flight with your family on it. And the guy you want your daughter to marry. And so on.

Like I said, you better know what the hell you're doing.

ToiletDuck

Forgot to bid they've already been determined to be sts.

forgot to bid

But only when it comes to representation. Hence why they're still in compliance despite us all knowing BB = RAH = Frontier = Shuttle = CHQ.

The IBT made sure to make their question, about STS for representation, so very specific because to do otherwise opened the possibility of being STS in every way. That would've then causes RAH to be kick to the curb and all the pilots the IBT represented with them.

But as of right now, the NMB ruling didn't give us much to work with other than to make it known that RAH is beatable if we're willing to fight. Shuttle and CHQ are still in compliance, for now.

That's why I hope the union moves to redefine air carrier so that any holdings company is automatically an STS. That' be great.

FAULTPUSH

I thought RAH pilots had been negotiating without much luck for 4 years?

Pineapple Guy

I'm about to head out on a vacation for a week, but if you are actually interested, here's what I'd do.

1. ALPA National tracks career dues
2. When a merger occurs, you "stovepipe" each sides' dues amounts without putting names to them. Then merger those dues amounts, such that the new list is an integrated list of slots for each airline. Then fill in those slots based on pre-merger lists of each group. So you never pass anyone on your own list because of dues, but it is used collectively to determine the integration method.
3. This can also be used if your airline goes out of business. BUT, you have to go through the normal hiring process at the new airline, and get hired. THEN, the same process would apply and you would be slotted in appropriately, but still at first year pay and benefits. That's still better than nothing, as presently stands.
4. We could even use this if you want to quit and go to another airline. In that case, as a compromise to the new pilot group, you take some determined penalty (20%?) by reducing your dues credit, before doing the integration. That penalizes those fleeing the sinking ship, but would likely be required to get the acquiring pilots to accept you in, particularly if you were somewhat responsible for the sinking...

These are all just thoughts. All of this could be modified, if we could find a cadre of pilots willing to get together to try something different. What we presently have certainly isn't working. Just look at all of the animosity of mergers, or worse yet, the devastation of careers when airlines go bankrupt. Age 50 is too old to start over like a 23 year old, yet that's exactly what we do to our most experience pilots, when they suffer under a pathetic management team.

I'll be glad to continue the discussion upon my return.

Pineapple Guy

Always up for debate. I know this is one thing that is very divisive, as former mil guys want a way to protect this career path, but many others feel that's unfair to non mil guys. It'd also be hard to determine the relative weighting, but that could all be worked out in the details.

I'm for ANYTHING other than our present system. Always have been, always will.