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-   -   QOL as a new hire reserve pilot at Frontier (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/frontier/88600-qol-new-hire-reserve-pilot-frontier.html)

Aero1900 06-30-2015 01:17 PM

For what it's worth, I know there are a number of crashpads very near the GO. I had some friends in one that was right next to the Parking Spot and it's about a mile away.

F9 Driver 06-30-2015 01:29 PM


Originally Posted by sulkair (Post 1918635)
F9 - what about when you call in after a reserve assignment on your last day, and they give you another overnight into your day off? Does this never happen here? I've not seen anything close to it on a year of RSV at F9 but my last abusive spouse often did this to me (with an 'evil laugh') so I'm perpetually and sheepishly nervous about it :o

...

Understandable jitters Sulk!

The contract only talks about "Extending" a Reserve, and when you call in you must be either released, assigned or extended. I thought there was an agreement that they couldn't JA you unless the call was specifically for that reason - either you calling back to accept or them calling to JA. Now it says, "The new assignment must be given within one hour and must be scheduled to depart within 4 hours of Block In. "
and
"
A Short Call shall not be Extended on his last day of a block of Reserve Days."

sulkair 06-30-2015 02:21 PM


Originally Posted by F9 Driver (Post 1918966)
Understandable jitters Sulk!

The contract only talks about "Extending" a Reserve, and when you call in you must be either released, assigned or extended. I thought there was an agreement that they couldn't JA you unless the call was specifically for that reason - either you calling back to accept or them calling to JA. Now it says, "The new assignment must be given within one hour and must be scheduled to depart within 4 hours of Block In. "
and
"
A Short Call shall not be Extended on his last day of a block of Reserve Days."

Thanks so much for the answer: It's good to know you're going home on the last day. Does wonders for one's mental health:D I've budgeted half my time on Deadheads to reading the CBA, the other half to watching Stargate SG-1 while continuously sqirming to keep the legs from falling asleep. Anyway, point is, hopefully soon I can start figuring out some of this stuff on my own.

Avroman 06-30-2015 06:13 PM


Originally Posted by F9 Driver (Post 1917237)
And for years all of the Legacy carriers paid in the $25/hr range for their first year - while you were on PROBATION. Second year you got a 100%+ raise, but they actually used the probationary period to evaluate whether they wanted to have you work there. Some even had you get a form filled out from every Capt. you flew with in that first year.

Supply and demand has changed things, but try not to forget how this industry got to where it is. $40 at year one in an RJ is part of the problem for those of us who want to fly decent schedules for good pay into retirement. I know they're old, but go on Amazon and pick up "Flying The Line 1&2". It's all perspective (and ball bearings these days)!

How is starting at $40 to fly a CR2 a problem when Frontier, Spirit, Virgin, ect. are paying less than that to start flying an Airbus? Seems to me the problem is with the starting Airbus pay today more than Endeavor's starting pay (granted that does take into account the $20k/year retention pay, but that's not just a newhire bonus. All active pilots get that so it's effectively a pay rate)
And $25/hr to fly a DC-9, Fokker,B-732, even FE on a B727 is pretty pathetic even in 1980 Dollars. So what if it's your first year, that should mean you don't deserve a wage to support your family? Yea it was nice in 1980 when a Pan Am B747 captain took home $180K (in 1980 Dollars), yet a United captain is still taking home that same amount today. Progress is beginning to be made on the bottom of the regionals, meanwhile Delta puts a TA to its pilots (after billions in profits) that looks to be overall status quo. Sure the pay rates go up a bit, but at the expense of QOL and other pay opportunities.

F9 Driver 07-01-2015 12:28 PM


Originally Posted by Avroman (Post 1919134)
How is starting at $40 to fly a CR2 a problem when Frontier, Spirit, Virgin, ect. are paying less than that to start flying an Airbus? Seems to me the problem is with the starting Airbus pay today more than Endeavor's starting pay (granted that does take into account the $20k/year retention pay, but that's not just a newhire bonus. All active pilots get that so it's effectively a pay rate)
And $25/hr to fly a DC-9, Fokker,B-732, even FE on a B727 is pretty pathetic even in 1980 Dollars. So what if it's your first year, that should mean you don't deserve a wage to support your family? Yea it was nice in 1980 when a Pan Am B747 captain took home $180K (in 1980 Dollars), yet a United captain is still taking home that same amount today. Progress is beginning to be made on the bottom of the regionals, meanwhile Delta puts a TA to its pilots (after billions in profits) that looks to be overall status quo. Sure the pay rates go up a bit, but at the expense of QOL and other pay opportunities.

The problem is that the Legacies allowed flying for their code to ever be done outside of their seniority lists. Regional feed should be part of the system seniority list, performed by mainline pilots and their pay should be in keeping with longevity and equipment size/responsibility. There are many reasons it isn't, but most are shameful and certainly nothing to brag about.

I'm all for a living wage, and never meant to represent any differently. To point out on an anonymous internet message board that an RJ new hire makes more than a Frontier Airbus new hire, and the Frontier pilot is somehow inferior, disregards (and disrespects) the struggles we continue to face at Frontier, and the many years of prospective provided by the history of airline pilot's pay.

And here I thought this thread was back on to the QOL of new hire reserve pilots at F9:D

Fred Flintstone 07-01-2015 12:46 PM


Originally Posted by Avroman (Post 1919134)
How is starting at $40 to fly a CR2 a problem when Frontier, Spirit, Virgin, ect. are paying less than that to start flying an Airbus? Seems to me the problem is with the starting Airbus pay today more than Endeavor's starting pay (granted that does take into account the $20k/year retention pay, but that's not just a newhire bonus. All active pilots get that so it's effectively a pay rate)

Virgin America first year is $52/hr, year 2 is $85. Endeavor is $25 and $33. I'd say your numbers are a bit off.

Skylove0618 07-01-2015 05:53 PM


Originally Posted by Fred Flintstone (Post 1919728)
Virgin America first year is $52/hr, year 2 is $85. Endeavor is $25 and $33. I'd say your numbers are a bit off.

He's probably including the $20k per year retention bonus everyone on property is getting. I took a slight raise to come here from Endeavor, and I was on 8 year pay there (until concessionary capped it at 4 years).

flycrj200 07-04-2015 06:46 AM

What are the new pay rates after the longevity Snap Back that was announced this week?

F9 Driver 07-04-2015 07:06 AM


Originally Posted by flycrj200 (Post 1922053)
What are the new pay rates after the longevity Snap Back that was announced this week?

Same pay rates. As your question mentions, it's a Longevity Snap Back.

We had a bunch of pilots who's Longevity was frozen as part of a concession. As of the 6/20 paycheck their Longevity will no longer be frozen, and they may advance to their proper step on the pay table commensurate with the definition of "Longevity" in our contract.

No new pay tables until the company shows another year's profit or we negotiate something better beginning in 244 days when we give our section 6 opener on March 2, 2016.

flycrj200 07-06-2015 03:18 AM


Originally Posted by F9 Driver (Post 1922068)
Same pay rates. As your question mentions, it's a Longevity Snap Back.

We had a bunch of pilots who's Longevity was frozen as part of a concession. As of the 6/20 paycheck their Longevity will no longer be frozen, and they may advance to their proper step on the pay table commensurate with the definition of "Longevity" in our contract.

No new pay tables until the company shows another year's profit or we negotiate something better beginning in 244 days when we give our section 6 opener on March 2, 2016.

Thanks for the info F9 Driver.

crflyer 07-06-2015 07:28 PM


Originally Posted by F9 Driver (Post 1922068)

No new pay tables until the company shows another year's profit or we negotiate something better beginning in 244 days when we give our section 6 opener on March 2, 2016.

Who's counting?:rolleyes:

Avroman 07-06-2015 09:09 PM


Originally Posted by Fred Flintstone (Post 1919728)
Virgin America first year is $52/hr, year 2 is $85. Endeavor is $25 and $33. I'd say your numbers are a bit off.

I stand corrected. I guess I should have said Sun Country instead of VA. Though $52/hr in New York and California might as well be $25/hr in Detroit or Minneapolis. I didn't realize VA upped the first year pay.


Originally Posted by Skylove0618 (Post 1920109)
He's probably including the $20k per year retention bonus everyone on property is getting. I took a slight raise to come here from Endeavor, and I was on 8 year pay there (until concessionary capped it at 4 years).

Yes, I include that bonus, because it's not just a new hire one time bonus. Every active pilot gets the money, doesn't matter if you were hired Jan 1, 1985 or Jan 1, 2015. It (based on 75 hour guarantee) adds $25/hr to everyone's pay. It would have been cheaper to keep the 8 year FO pay. I bet a lot less FO's would have left in such a short time, but management/Delta got their karma, well a day's worth so far.


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