Excargodog

Is this a trick question? If you see a safety of flight issue why should you give the proverbial rats @$$ if the PIC cared if you brought it to his/her attention?

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-...s-into-potomac

flynd94

Call away, no shame in my game.

UAL T38 Phlyer

I was jumpseating on a 145 in the aft cabin. At liftoff, I saw what I thought was condensation trails from the flap-tip....and then realized I was seeing fuel come from the overwing cap.

I waited to see if it stopped, or if I was wrong. It kept coming.

So, I approached the FA (I was in uniform) and told her what I saw...asked if she could tell the crew. She seemed a little confused, but complied, and put me on the interphone.

I felt a little awkward but told the Capt what I was seeing. He said it was common with a big fuel load, but thanked me. Not sure if that was it, or he was just getting rid of me.

Pax reported this on a United 747-400 several years ago. Crew dismissed it at first. Eventually they saw pics...it was coming out of the left dump-mast!! Yes, that was a problem.

So yeah, I say if you see something, speak up.

trip

If I were the Capt and a F/A calls up with info from a D/H pilot about ice I'd stop and go back for a look see.

The really critical airplane to worry about is the CRJ200 that has no LE devices, the first 7-8" on that wing are super critical. Bombardier put a procedure in place years ago to have crews turn on wing anti-ice for final taxi whenever temps are 10deg or below, precip or no precip, just to insure that leading edge is clean of ice. They proclaimed if given a choice they'd rather have crews do that then deice the entire wing, that's how important the leading edge is and the not so important rest of the wing.

Of course under the FAA guidelines all U.S. airlines operate with the clean wing concept, all contaminates must be removed prior to T/O with exceptions for underwing fuel tank frost.

aviator493

You go up before flight and demand they deice, twice.


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flynd94

It actually is common on the E145 with large full loads. Tank baffle issue

Hellafo

Short answer is no. G7 has a clean aircraft concept, however there is an exemption of 1/8th of an inch on he underside of the wings if it is due to cold soaked fuel. Aircraft surface features must be distinguishable.
I've never understood this....you get paid by the minute, go to the pad.

popcopy

Thanks for the reply. I won't hesitate next time to inform the crew if they zoom by the deice pad with both turning, ready for takeoff.

majorpilot

How could anyone inside the aircraft see the underside of the wing? Any frost/contamination reported by anyone inside couldn’t be on the underside of the wing.

majorpilot

Watch the “Air Disasters” episode about the Air Florida Flight 90 that ended up in the Potomac. Had someone spoken up, it might have made a difference. Even the FO knew something was wrong but didn’t act.