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Taking off with frosty wings

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Taking off with frosty wings

Old 03-01-2019, 06:41 PM
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Default Taking off with frosty wings

Leaving DTW this morning I was a passenger on a GoJet flight. Musta been the first flight for the jet because the wings were frosty. After pushback, I was dumbstruck when the crew skipped the deice pad and went ahead and blasted off. Is there guidance in your FOM that allows a departure with a certain amount of frost on the top of the wings?
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Old 03-01-2019, 06:48 PM
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I don't work for gojets, but the answer is "No".

Might have been dew though, looks kind of like frost... you have to touch it to verify that unless it was well above freezing all night (required tactile check).
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Old 03-02-2019, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
Might have been dew though, looks kind of like frost.
Temp was -8C.

Anyways, Ive never flown anywhere that allowed frost on the top of the wing. But, I’m also not a GoJet Pilot so I wanted to give the crew the benefit of the doubt.
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Old 03-02-2019, 09:49 AM
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Spent an extra 6 hours in Zaragoza Spain once upon a time because a rotational C-130 I needed to travel on had frost on its wings. Doesn’t happen often in Zaragoza. Between the Spanish civilian airport, the Spanish Air Force side, and the USAF side, there wasn’t enough de-ice fluid to fill a zippo lighter. Now in reality, the ac was damn near empty, just a “comfort” pallet (think porta potty on a standard 463L pallet) and about 12 of us who needed to get up to USAFE HQ to give a general a briefing, and I’m sure it wouldn’t have made the least difference to the C-130 but it’s still something you just don’t do. We knew that, and the General did too.

In this day and age where everyone’s got a phone and every phone’s a video camera, it’s the sort of “mistake” that can cost you a violation and a career at a major.
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Old 03-02-2019, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by popcopy View Post
Temp was -8C.

Anyways, Ive never flown anywhere that allowed frost on the top of the wing. But, I’m also not a GoJet Pilot so I wanted to give the crew the benefit of the doubt.
The answer is they were wrong.

I had new hire FOs that came from Part 91 Citiation flying that told me it was OK to takeoff without deicing because it wasn't sticking to the wing during the walk around. 1/2sm and SN.

That place is a half-step from an accident for many reasons, this being one of them. So glad I left.
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Old 03-02-2019, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by MoarAlpha View Post
The answer is they were wrong.

I had new hire FOs that came from Part 91 Citiation flying that told me it was OK to takeoff without deicing because it wasn't sticking to the wing during the walk around. 1/2sm and SN.

That place is a half-step from an accident for many reasons, this being one of them. So glad I left.
But what if you can't see the top of the wing?
What you can't see, can't hurt you, you know?
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Old 03-03-2019, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by dera View Post
But what if you can't see the top of the wing?
What you can't see, can't hurt you, you know?
I feel the same way on visual approaches when I scream and close my eyes.
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Old 03-03-2019, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by MoarAlpha View Post
I feel the same way on visual approaches when I scream and close my eyes.
Company Mottos:

Ford - Quality is Job One!

Delta - We love to fly and it shows.

IBM - "Think."

Apple - "Think Different."

Valuejet - "Think Next Time"

L'Oréal Paris - "Because You're Worth It."

Nike - "Just Do It."

GoJet - "Just Do It, Or We Will Fire You!"

(After the flight, fire him anyway, he dared to question us.)
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Old 03-04-2019, 03:51 AM
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Originally Posted by StlLifer
(After the flight, fire him anyway, he dared to question us.)
I must say, if G7 does fire pilots as often as everyone seems to claim, they must have one hell of a recruiting team to keep up with the added demand.
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Old 03-04-2019, 11:50 AM
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Question on this topic. You’re dhing. plane has been sitting for 90 minutes in -fzra. they spend a very long time decing but when you look out from exit row after they apply type 4 you see aileron still glazed in ice. plane is full w other crew members in the cabin. Do you call the fa to tell the captain? If you were the skipper would you be happy a dhing pilot brought it to your attention? cannot see wing from cockpit.
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