I elect to exercise my previously reserved right, since upon review I realize I misunderstood the i, ii, and iii requirements to be required in sim world only. What it really says is ‘when using a simulator, paragraph C must be met’, which is a completely separate set of requirements to satisfy. So now I need to go check company ops specs to see if there’s been a deviation granted by the FAA before I email the training department with unwarranted concern.

Thanks for posing the question, though. It’s always good to learn.

Critically, they have a large enough cadre of lifers many of whom serve as line check airmen. The smaller players do not so OE is where the largest bottleneck occurs. They lose line check airmen as fast as they make them. I suspect Republic is the only other regional in a similar position as Skywest in that regard but not quite to the same level.

Yes, this makes sense in terms of logistics and seems to be what’s happening. GoJet lost a lot of LCAs when the new hiring wave began earlier this year. MGMT assures us they are doing what they can to resolve the issue.

Interestingly, we had someone very recently try to tell us they were interviewing pilots from other outfits and that this problem was everywhere, not just GoJet. A second person joined in to claim that someone they knew at Skywest was waiting for IOE and that it had been a month. From what I’ve heard, the wait at Skywest is only for a class date, so I’d be interested to know if there’s any truth to the rumor. For the record, I’m doubtful of this third party claim, at this point.

If anyone was following the previous topic re: landing currency issues, we got our answer from the IOE coordinator; pilots who have lost currency waiting on IOE are immediately ‘de-qualified’ for IOE and have to go back to SIM world to meet the requirements of 121.439. This will certainly be a huge wrench in the works for us. In case you don’t want to calculate this yourselves, I’ll summarize: FOs with just 30 days left on the initial consolidation timer now have to go back to training for at least a V1 cut (plus maybe a single engine landing?) ILS to mins with a landing, and a regular full stop landing. Must be signed off on those items to become eligible for IOE again, and then must complete IOE in time to get a check airman to approve the consolidation extension, which then allows 30 more days to get whatever is needed to meet the 100 hr req.

I’m assuming any of the sim instructors can sign off on this landing currency? As in it doesn’t have to be one of the DPEs?

It has to be observed and certified by a Check Airman. I don’t think any of the sim instructors will work here. It reads like it’s a proficiency check.

skywest has a 6 week wait for OE, They also have the longest wait for a class date and some of the lowest hiring numbers relative to their size.

I doubt you have a clue what the wait time is at OO from Checkride to IOE (neither do I, but I won’t pretend to know). Second, I’m not giving out too much credit to OO management, but do you realize what it takes to push through 250 new hires a month? For example all 3 legacy’s on their best years have pushed closer to 100-120 a month with a much larger operation and pilot group. So saying “lowest hiring numbers relative to their size” tells me you know enough, and have decided to use that information to deceive your audience.

From friends still at OO, they told me SkyWest lost 150 pilots last month (potential record), but gained 100 (hired 250). Most in the group chat weren’t thrilled about that “accomplishment” because it just proves their management doesn’t have to do a thing to recruit pilots, other than show they hold a strong business (that could change as the available pilots dry up, which they will eventually).

OO lost 146 last month and gained 117. So 265 new hires in October.

One of my good friends is currently waiting for OE, while at the sim center yesterday the Skywest guys were *****ing about how they would have to wait till after Christmas for OE. I get that hiring 250 pilots a month is huge, but look at smaller airlines. Air Wisconsin is hiring 40-50 per month with a seniority list of 550. That’s 10% of the seniority list every month. Sky west is hiring 250 for 5500 or under 5%. Air Wisconsin has a large delay for the sims but almost no delay for classes.

AW also has a single type fleet.
OO has to have instructors for 2 types, and then within the CRJ, there is an additional 700-900 training event that has to happen.
LCA groups have to exist for CRJ2 CRJ7 CRJ9 & ERJ175.
This means there are more training events and more line checks in order to fly the line than a company like AW.

It’s simply not an apples to apples comparison.

this is true that it takes more, the thing is airline pilots can only fly one thing at a time. The amount of resources is the same to take a person from zero to hero regardless of number of fleets. The only thing that takes a little more resources is when someone upgrades into a new fleet, this take more sim time and ground school, but OE is the same regardless. Also Skywest has sim slots that go completely un-used right now while other companies have zero sim availability. Everyone else is hitting a wall with sim availability cause Skywest bought it all with no ability to use it all (smart move)

I don’t know where you’re getting this information from, but it is 100%, without a doubt, incorrect.

121 Pilots aren’t interchangeable parts even in a single type airline. Both line check airmen and captains are a critical resource that can’t be renewed quickly. captains take about 18 months to grow minimum


If, as cited, air Wisconsin is losing 10% of the list monthly, they will lose all their captains in 10 months. Assuming they upgrade everyone on property that’s left and backfill with fo’s it will be 8 months before they can start a trickle of captain production again.

game over. None of these mass hire rates are remotely sustainable for attrition

maybe some sort of acquisition / consolidation is in the cards? (Pure speculation on my part.)

there are issues with consolidation in time

nobody wants crj200’s in a pilot shortage

true, it’s not the planes I was referring to, but the pilots.

Shut an airline down, and the pilots will end up getting acquired eventually.

in 10 years they would be Captains at a Major or LLC. Just looks at past history when this has happened… A solid good regional only prolongs your stay there…

More than likely, when places like GoJet get shut down, the majority of the pilots end up at the bottom of the seniority list at another regional. Hate to say it, but it is a contract carrier and not a wholly-owned regional.

An acquisition is a lot of trouble if you don’t want the planes.

When an airline shuts down the industry typically loses 10-15% of the pilots. They retire early or find work outside the airline industry. If the goal is to get pilots then the best route is to merge airlines. Nobody likes the seniority merger but most people who would have otherwise left the industry, stay in a merger.

That won’t happen. The only regional who can afford anyone (and they have the cash for multiple acquisitions) is SkyWest. The worst move SkyWest has ever made was attempting to merge the ExpressJet pilot group after they bought them out.

If you know anything about OO’s history, they lost a CEO over that financial mistake, and his right hand man is now the current CEO (CC had a front row seat to the acquisition). They’ve decided to go a separate route to eliminate their competitors (and it’s working).

typically when an airline shuts down it isn’t because of a pilot hiring market so hot that they can’t fill cockpits

However many regionals shut down anyone who wants a job will get vacuumed up quickly. They’re gonna have to get 66yo’s to repo all the planes to Arizona

Any updates on training delays?

I’m very curious about this as well

I live in St Louis, ATP, 1500hrs, 1000 multi, 200 multi PIC, 300IFR. Can I get hired and can I base at STL?
What does FO life look like? Typical schedule?

Yep, you’re hired! Seriously, you could be in the next class. Not sure about STL as a base right now. Probably EWR at first, but you could probably get STL as an FO not too long after training. Schedules are rough, not gonna lie, but you’ll rack up hours quickly.

There still a long wait for IOE?

I’m really interested. Is training in STL? What do u mean by “schedules are rough”? How many nights are u on the road per week/per month? How many in a row, typically?