BURflyer

This whole thread is idiotic. How can a company "still" be called a scab? A scab is a scab and will always be a scab. Gojet is NOT a scab company.

riccpt82

this is seriously a joke

BURflyer

Um Gojet is the same as shuttle/republic and freedom(mesa). They are airlines that were formed to get around scope clauses. The main difference is that Freedom pilots(non union), after they got their share of hate, were merged with mesa guys because U.S airways relaxed their 50+ seat scope. Shuttle/Republic was voted YES(to fly 85k pound jets for almost 50 seat pay) by the pilots in the first place so they didn't get to have their own Freedom/GJ style of debacle. Kind of interesting also that a teamsters airline votes yes while 2 ALPA carriers voted no, and look what happened. TSA could have had one seniorty list, pilots said no. Now they are legally separate carriers. GJ is union and growing, TSA is shrinking. Nothing scab about it.

TheOak

regardless of what anybody tells you on this message board, or of what your definition of scab is to let yourself sleep at night, there will always...


I repeat, ALWAYS ... meaning FOREVER... INDEFINITE... SIEMPRE...


be a very large community of pilots in this small industry that will hold little to no respect for GoJet pilots. (previous or current pilots) Don't think its just those associated with Trans States either.


This has nothing to do with what is right, wrong or just, it's just the way it is. I think this is what type of answer you're really looking for too. "is it worth leaving a C402 for?" Only you can make that decision with the info provided.

BURflyer

The way it is is that there are thousands of regional pilots out there flying for little compensation. You're flying mainline flying. Nobody likes the state of the industry but you can't hold a grudge against a few pilots who have the right to be there as do Republic/shuttle/freedeom GJ is no different then any other carrier as far as their impact. If you think that's wrong then look yourself in the mirror first and join the real world. You and your "large community" hating on a few guys from STL isn't gong to do any good. Why don't you try to raise the bar and let that do the talking, GJ pilots haven't stopped you. They became union got CRJ7 pay and a contract.

Golden Child

I haven't been on here for forever, but now have the time. Ok... to qualify my opinion I am a waterskier (TSA) on Furlough and came onboard after the mess. I'll try to keep this objective because I have friends on both sides.

Here is the cemtral source of contention as I understand it
-Prior to GoJet's creation TSA anounced it was acquiring CRJ 700s at a time when the TSA contract already had pay rates for that scope agreed to (in other words, ALPA already had an existing pay table for that scope)
-However you wish to tell the story, the results were that Trans States Holdings (HK) decided not to honor this pay rate previously agreed to, and this was only made possible because certain people from TSA jumped ship to start GoJet
-These pilots accepted what was originally the same pay for larger airplanes
-The loss of this flying hurt upgrades at TSA and established the precedent of TSH (HK) getting away with rolling all over pilots and granting no concessions in the absence of pilot group unity

The aftermath

Teamsters was voted in at GoJet and this fact may prevent the two companys from ever getting under one roof. GoJet is still getting planes and still hiring, and following the furloughs at TSA, many are moving over to GoJet because of preferencial hiring. There are now some people at Gojet that arrived after the start up and just want to fly and get ahead, but the reputation is a source of problems because before GoJet won the battle ALPA national got involved, and many of the legacy/Main Line ALPA characters remember the reputation poorly because of this. As a result many have avoided the company because, like me, they heard from those ahead that going there will cause problems later on. If you were one of the TSA folks effected, sentiments run deep. Undoubtedly the rep. has hampered hiring efforts before the furloughs in the industry came down. I have noticed that prior to the beginning of furloughs in the industry, GoJet was resorting to hiring dsome strange characters (immigrants and retirees who wanted to try the airline life for a while). That said, many of the new pilots coming up don't seem to care because AA is not ALPA, nor is Southwest, so getting a jumpseat is usually doable, plus the upgrade is good. With an all CRJ 700 fleet with mins at 500tt, who can blame them for thinking about getting a head start in the industry? The choice may come back to cause them grief later however. Many of you will remember that Shuttle had this problem until Mesa brought the alter-ego back into the fold, and all was forgiven... at least as far as their pilots having trouble at the majors. This does not seem to be the fate of GoJet, but remember NetJets in Teamsters too.

Anyway, those are the facts as objective as I can put them. If we as pilots all got on the same page as we did back when ALPA started, we could make outstanding progress. This bickering between us is what management plans strategies around, but ALPA national now has dangerous ambitions which hamper much progress for a given MEC... the union thing has gotten too political and unresponsive to pilot groups. Look at the problems at AA, US Air/America West, and Colgan to see where ALPA policies have frustrated the folks on the line to the point of not wanting it anymore.

BURflyer

You make some good points, ALPA did have a major role in the division amongst TSA pilots before GJ was created by TSA holdings to get around the AA scope. However you're making it seem like the unions dictate where will a pilot spend his career and who is going to be hired by which company based on their union support. A gojet pilot isn't doomed to work for only Teamster operations from now on. It doesn't work that way. And by the way NJ isn't teamster anymore.

flyinaway411

burflyer joining the likes of airwillie in defending the decision to apply to gj. unreal.

in a cynically perfect world, we (tsa pilots) strike because of this damn contract taking forever, they (mngmnt) threaten to move our planes to gj, and then they do it, and gj pilots fly struck work. then we can really treat them for what the majority of us know them as.

these threads are ridiculous and should be closed immediately.

burflyer your ignorance is mind boggling. you say tsa pilots had the chance to fly crj7's. but as stated previously, they didnt, because mngmnt did not honor the rates in place. do you think they should have flown them at the 50 seat rate? no, they shouldnt have. but there were unethical tools that went to gj to fly the planes at the reduced rate to get the quick/immediate upgrade. and no...those pilots did not start gj. but it wouldnt be able to operate without pilots. do you really think before you speak/post?

no, you probably wont be denied j/s'ing if u work for gj. and it probably wont haunt your career down the road. but think about the likes of the people you'll be joining, the unethical jerks that stabbed their fellow pilots in the back for doing what any pilot group would stand up for, and that is more wages for bigger a/c. not to mention should those planes be on one master seniority list as at rep/chq/shut, tsa pilots would not be getting furloughed/downgraded like we are. so if you go there, your showing your suppport for that as well. join the gj pilot group, it simply shows what kind of person you are.

AVIATORCFI

Golden Child

What's up with the strange characters remark?
Do you have problems with immigrants and retirees?

BURflyer

Dude, GJ was going to start and has started with or without TSA pilots joining, are you joking? Was Republic/Shuttle started? Was freedom started? The fact that somehow you're going to make a difference by standing up is ridiculous. The fact is that GJ pay pre-contract was better than your current 50 seat pay. After they got the contract it's even better than other 70 seat regionals depending on year. And all this BS about GJ undercutting TSA doesn't stand because that same management who supposedly screwed TSA guys, gave GJ guys a better contract with 70 seat pay. Does that make any sense?? Why would management go with all this trouble of forming another airline when they could have just gave what TSA wanted in the first place??? Admit you got screwed, should have voted yes and gotten the better pay like all the other regionals have done. ALPA lost their battle in courts, it's over. Get over it, in the end we're all the same, flying RJs for **** pay.