Thoughts about CURRENT GoJet
07-01-2010, 09:23 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 596
Originally Posted by captainchipotle
Rode the A-320 jumpseat from ord-pdx (ouch) with a go jet guy in the other jumpseat.
The pilots and flight attendants were extremely nice to me, offering an endless amount of drinks, and freshly made brownies during cruise. NOBODY talked to the go jets guy. I kind of felt bad after a while.
The pilots and flight attendants were extremely nice to me, offering an endless amount of drinks, and freshly made brownies during cruise. NOBODY talked to the go jets guy. I kind of felt bad after a while.
07-01-2010, 12:26 PM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: CRJ, CR7, A320, B737
Posts: 229
The current GoJet is made up of a few different groups. There are the 60 or 70 United furloughs who took the jets for jobs openings offered by ALPA. Then there are the ATA/Midwest guys who are all captains. They aren't too bad. Then there are the "senior" FO's who came to GoJet with very little flight time and no experince, who aren't gaining much by flying to GRR and DAY all the time, and can't upgrade yet because they don't have the 4500 to upgrade. Then there are the TSA guys who came over and are lifers. They are all company men, who hesitate to write things up for fear of being late. The final group are the captains who were FO's at other airlines (Eagle seems to be a big one). They are hit and miss, but lean towards being company men.
The union is a joke. Union stewards are check airmen or are company men.
Reserve is horrible. 10 hour airport reserve, with no limit on how many you do in a month, 10 days off.
Line holder schedules aren't that bad, average 13-15 days off a month. Most trips are commutable...noon time shows, done by 3 or 4, even for junior line holders. Lines from 75-90 hours, you can set your threshold.
Management leads by fear and intimidation. They have built their empire and do everything they can to repel the peasants at the castle walls.
MX mostly defers items and does very little fixing. Don't know if it's the CRJ7 or MX, but most airplanes either have DUCT MON FAULT, or STAB/SLAT or FLAPS FAULT status messages deferred. Nose wheel shimmy is horrible on 75% of the planes. APU's seem to always work. ACARS works great. Dispatchers are weak if they get a curve ball (I think they are all new, and I think they only have 2 on duty at a time.)
No problems jumpseating.
OK ( with a grain of salt) to come and get current....can't wait to leave. I wouldn't dream of coming here if you had a current flying job that is livable.
The union is a joke. Union stewards are check airmen or are company men.
Reserve is horrible. 10 hour airport reserve, with no limit on how many you do in a month, 10 days off.
Line holder schedules aren't that bad, average 13-15 days off a month. Most trips are commutable...noon time shows, done by 3 or 4, even for junior line holders. Lines from 75-90 hours, you can set your threshold.
Management leads by fear and intimidation. They have built their empire and do everything they can to repel the peasants at the castle walls.
MX mostly defers items and does very little fixing. Don't know if it's the CRJ7 or MX, but most airplanes either have DUCT MON FAULT, or STAB/SLAT or FLAPS FAULT status messages deferred. Nose wheel shimmy is horrible on 75% of the planes. APU's seem to always work. ACARS works great. Dispatchers are weak if they get a curve ball (I think they are all new, and I think they only have 2 on duty at a time.)
No problems jumpseating.
OK ( with a grain of salt) to come and get current....can't wait to leave. I wouldn't dream of coming here if you had a current flying job that is livable.
07-01-2010, 12:40 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: 747 FO
Posts: 937
Originally Posted by Blueskies21
............. but I believe the scope had already been sold when compass was created.
So that would be the apples/oranges.
So that would be the apples/oranges.
So that would be apples to apples.
07-01-2010, 12:46 PM
#44
ILL BEE DAT
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Rollin' Down tha 405
Posts: 2,550
Originally Posted by JetPilotMike
The current GoJet is made up of a few different groups. There are the 60 or 70 United furloughs who took the jets for jobs openings offered by ALPA. Then there are the ATA/Midwest guys who are all captains. They aren't too bad. Then there are the "senior" FO's who came to GoJet with very little flight time and no experince, who aren't gaining much by flying to GRR and DAY all the time, and can't upgrade yet because they don't have the 4500 to upgrade. Then there are the TSA guys who came over and are lifers. They are all company men, who hesitate to write things up for fear of being late. The final group are the captains who were FO's at other airlines (Eagle seems to be a big one). They are hit and miss, but lean towards being company men.
The union is a joke. Union stewards are check airmen or are company men.
Reserve is horrible. 10 hour airport reserve, with no limit on how many you do in a month, 10 days off.
Line holder schedules aren't that bad, average 13-15 days off a month. Most trips are commutable...noon time shows, done by 3 or 4, even for junior line holders. Lines from 75-90 hours, you can set your threshold.
Management leads by fear and intimidation. They have built their empire and do everything they can to repel the peasants at the castle walls.
MX mostly defers items and does very little fixing. Don't know if it's the CRJ7 or MX, but most airplanes either have DUCT MON FAULT, or STAB/SLAT or FLAPS FAULT status messages deferred. Nose wheel shimmy is horrible on 75% of the planes. APU's seem to always work. ACARS works great. Dispatchers are weak if they get a curve ball (I think they are all new, and I think they only have 2 on duty at a time.)
No problems jumpseating.
OK ( with a grain of salt) to come and get current....can't wait to leave. I wouldn't dream of coming here if you had a current flying job that is livable.
The union is a joke. Union stewards are check airmen or are company men.
Reserve is horrible. 10 hour airport reserve, with no limit on how many you do in a month, 10 days off.
Line holder schedules aren't that bad, average 13-15 days off a month. Most trips are commutable...noon time shows, done by 3 or 4, even for junior line holders. Lines from 75-90 hours, you can set your threshold.
Management leads by fear and intimidation. They have built their empire and do everything they can to repel the peasants at the castle walls.
MX mostly defers items and does very little fixing. Don't know if it's the CRJ7 or MX, but most airplanes either have DUCT MON FAULT, or STAB/SLAT or FLAPS FAULT status messages deferred. Nose wheel shimmy is horrible on 75% of the planes. APU's seem to always work. ACARS works great. Dispatchers are weak if they get a curve ball (I think they are all new, and I think they only have 2 on duty at a time.)
No problems jumpseating.
OK ( with a grain of salt) to come and get current....can't wait to leave. I wouldn't dream of coming here if you had a current flying job that is livable.
First and foremost...thats got to be the best description of life on the other side. Both pro and con which is nice for the OP.
Thanks for keeping it real.
Secondly, airport reserve is awesome if you live in base and are sr on the reserve list. While on the other side I was able to rack up the AR and cash in for a couple months while I was relatively sr. If you commute you're kinda SOL AR wise.
Not too sure about management leadership on the AX side since I haven't been there in almost 24 months but honestly I never had an issue with the CP or any of the FMs. Things were a bit better back then though.
As for MX....we're talking about TSH here...'c'mon cuzz.'
Jumpseating, well, I'll put it like this...I've JS'd on Delta (Mainline), American (Mainline), Eagle, CO (Mainline), G7 (of course), and United (Mainline) and have only been questioned further after my answer of "Trans States" on one airline, United. I've been out of the loop for a while airline wise so I don't know if it's still an issue or not.
As for the OP...if you're looking to go to G7 for the money I can hook you up with what I'm doing right now for cash. It's not flying but let's put it this way...I'm not concerned about touching airplanes anymore.
Best of luck to you man!
[/serious post from SalukiPilot]
07-01-2010, 12:56 PM
#45
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 25
Thanks bernouli and jetpilotmike for the input. I appreciate it.
07-01-2010, 01:03 PM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: seated beer curl
Posts: 406
My brother flies for GoJet and regularly commutes from ATL to ORD. He never has a problem with jumpseating and has never had any crews from other airlines shun him. He is treated no differently than when he flew for United.
07-01-2010, 02:09 PM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 596
Originally Posted by JetPilotMike
The current GoJet is made up of a few different groups. There are the 60 or 70 United furloughs who took the jets for jobs openings offered by ALPA. Then there are the ATA/Midwest guys who are all captains. They aren't too bad. Then there are the "senior" FO's who came to GoJet with very little flight time and no experince, who aren't gaining much by flying to GRR and DAY all the time, and can't upgrade yet because they don't have the 4500 to upgrade. Then there are the TSA guys who came over and are lifers. They are all company men, who hesitate to write things up for fear of being late. The final group are the captains who were FO's at other airlines (Eagle seems to be a big one). They are hit and miss, but lean towards being company men.
The union is a joke. Union stewards are check airmen or are company men.
Reserve is horrible. 10 hour airport reserve, with no limit on how many you do in a month, 10 days off.
Line holder schedules aren't that bad, average 13-15 days off a month. Most trips are commutable...noon time shows, done by 3 or 4, even for junior line holders. Lines from 75-90 hours, you can set your threshold.
Management leads by fear and intimidation. They have built their empire and do everything they can to repel the peasants at the castle walls.
MX mostly defers items and does very little fixing. Don't know if it's the CRJ7 or MX, but most airplanes either have DUCT MON FAULT, or STAB/SLAT or FLAPS FAULT status messages deferred. Nose wheel shimmy is horrible on 75% of the planes. APU's seem to always work. ACARS works great. Dispatchers are weak if they get a curve ball (I think they are all new, and I think they only have 2 on duty at a time.)
No problems jumpseating.
OK ( with a grain of salt) to come and get current....can't wait to leave. I wouldn't dream of coming here if you had a current flying job that is livable.
The union is a joke. Union stewards are check airmen or are company men.
Reserve is horrible. 10 hour airport reserve, with no limit on how many you do in a month, 10 days off.
Line holder schedules aren't that bad, average 13-15 days off a month. Most trips are commutable...noon time shows, done by 3 or 4, even for junior line holders. Lines from 75-90 hours, you can set your threshold.
Management leads by fear and intimidation. They have built their empire and do everything they can to repel the peasants at the castle walls.
MX mostly defers items and does very little fixing. Don't know if it's the CRJ7 or MX, but most airplanes either have DUCT MON FAULT, or STAB/SLAT or FLAPS FAULT status messages deferred. Nose wheel shimmy is horrible on 75% of the planes. APU's seem to always work. ACARS works great. Dispatchers are weak if they get a curve ball (I think they are all new, and I think they only have 2 on duty at a time.)
No problems jumpseating.
OK ( with a grain of salt) to come and get current....can't wait to leave. I wouldn't dream of coming here if you had a current flying job that is livable.
07-01-2010, 02:27 PM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2009
Position: Guru
Posts: 182
Originally Posted by JetPilotMike
MX mostly defers items and does very little fixing. Don't know if it's the CRJ7 or MX, but most airplanes either have DUCT MON FAULT, or STAB/SLAT or FLAPS FAULT status messages deferred. Nose wheel shimmy is horrible on 75% of the planes. APU's seem to always work. ACARS works great. Dispatchers are weak if they get a curve ball (I think they are all new, and I think they only have 2 on duty at a time.)
.
.
The CRJ 700 and 900 are known to have DUCT MON faults all the time. Bombardier designed their Anti ice loops horribly. Basically the resistance at one or more of the connectors get extremly high (100 ohms or more I believe) the the loops open up. So the only way to fix it is to find the location of the opened connector and clean it or replace the insulator (luckily the MDC narrows it down for us somewhat) as for the flaps stab/slat faults we get them too. But they are not that common.
07-01-2010, 05:25 PM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: ERJ145 Captain
Posts: 473
For the original poster, here's a quick history lesson that has been posted before, but it will give you an excellent idea what gojets is all about, and what most of the folks there are all about.
You will have gojets guys like Zapata and Airwillie try to divert your attention with the TSA - Eagle debacle, but two wrongs do not equal a right, these are the facts and have been documented:
You will have gojets guys like Zapata and Airwillie try to divert your attention with the TSA - Eagle debacle, but two wrongs do not equal a right, these are the facts and have been documented:
Trans States Pilots vs GoJet
A White Paper Analysis
Purpose:
The purpose of this document is to inform airline professionals on how GoJet Airlines, LLC adversely affects Trans States Pilots. While this white paper is factual, it is not meant to be unbiased or devoid of opinion. To the contrary, this document’s is designed to educate anyone considering a job or career with GoJet so that he or she may make an informed decision by answering this question: Will accepting a position at GoJet be detrimental to Trans States pilots and the airline industry as a whole?
Background:
In late 2003, Trans States Airlines management indicated their desire to acquire and operate large regional jet aircraft. In early 2004, the Trans States MEC and TSA management began negotiating rates of pay for large regional jet aircraft (i.e. those in excess of 64 seats). Despite months of negotiations, the TSA MEC was unable to reach an agreement on the substandard pay scales Trans States management demanded. As a result, in early fall of 2004 negotiations had diffused.
In October 2004, Trans States Airlines’ President announced a need to create another airline to operate large regional jet aircraft, citing the Allied Pilots Association (APA – American Airlines) scope language restricting Trans States Airlines from operating aircraft larger than 50 seats. This airline, GoJet, would be controlled by the newly created Trans States Holdings1. While the APA scope restrictions did exist, that limitation did not prevent two airlines with independent operating certificates from operating with one seniority list or under a single collective bargaining agreement.
Meanwhile, four TSA management pilots who were hired as GoJet pilots, signed authorization cards stating they wished to be represented by the Teamsters, and GoJet management secretly signed on to the bogus scheme. ALPA challenged this attempt with the National Mediation Board, claiming that the Teamsters could not be the bargaining representative of GoJet since GoJet had not yet obtained an operating certificate. ALPA’s challenge was upheld by the NMB. The Trans States MEC immediately requested a meeting with the President of Trans States Airlines, who, by no coincidence, would also be the President of GoJet Airlines. Only after informational picketing, a pilot rally at St. Louis and a letter written by then ALPA President Duane Woerth to TSA CEO Hulas Kanodia, was the President of TSA finally convinced to
meet and negotiate with the TSA MEC.Negotiations began in the summer of 2005. Throughout the negotiations, TSA took a take-it-or-leave-it approach. Eventually in late summer 20052 TSA management put their last, best proposal on the table. Their LOA proposal contained Single Carrier language, a Holding Company Letter (binding TSH to TSA CBA), merged seniority list, substandard 70/90 seat pay scales, and a contract extension of 4 years3. Unfortunately, the GoJet LOA, in the opinion of many TSA pilots, lacked true job security protection. Management’s LOA prevented the bumping of those pilots already at GoJet from their equipment in the event of a reduction in another piece of equipment. This was particularly sensitive to the J41 fleet, which had already been scheduled to be removed from service by mid 2006. ALPA had tried to remedy this inequity through an additional proposal that protected the Trans States pilots, but TSA management was not interested. The TSA MEC conducted a series of road shows that outlined what management’s LOA did and didn’t provide in terms of wages, duration and scope. The pilots of Trans States Airlines voted down the proposal 3 to 1 in what was clearly a very emotional vote.[/font]
[FONT='Times New Roman','serif']The Trans States MEC re-polled the pilots to determine why the vote failed and also attempted to resume negotiations, but Trans States management refused despite our best efforts to re-engage. ALPA also filed a petition with the NMB to recognize Trans States and GoJet as a single carrier. The NMB received briefs from the Company and ALPA. Primarily because the Company had separated the labor relations functions of TSA and GoJet, the NMB denied ALPA’s single carrier petition and Teamsters (IBT local 618) remained as the representational party. Trans States’ MEC also filed a Section 1 scope violation grievance, which remains pending today. The TSA CBA states that the Company shall not create or acquire an alter-ego to avoid the terms and conditions of this agreement5. Although ALPA lost the Single Carrier petition, a different standard will be used by an arbitrator on whether TSA violated that portion of the CBA
Ex-TSA Pilots
During the course of the GoJet negotiations in 2004 and 2005, two TSA pilots who had become Flight Managers4 assisted in the creation and operation of GoJet. These flight managers would later actively try to prevent ALPA from becoming the labor representation unit at GoJet by signing authorization cards with two others in an attempt to place IBT 618 on property and block any attempt by pilots to choose ALPA. In early 2005, these same pilots were directly involved with other senior TSA management personnel in union busting tactics that resulted in the wrongful termination of five union officers in a direct attempt to undermine the TSA MEC and ALPA.
In late 2005, after the LOA vote failed, TSA management began offering GoJet jobs to TSA pilots by enticing them with up to five years’ longevity. At the time, TSA pilots were actively demonstrating that GoJet flying belonged to and should be flown by TSA pilots on the TSA Seniority List. Only a few pilots from TSA rank and file went to GoJet, but their decision to do so at the expense of our campaign to unify these companies left deep scars and set off the beginning of a pilot war. Most of the ex-TSA pilots who went to GoJet were made check airmen and held IBT shop steward positions. Even members of IBT’s Airline Division Local 747 condemned the actions of IBT 618 to unionize this group while ALPA was trying to resolve the issues. TSA pilots wore “Alter EGoJet” badge backers in a visual display of their discontent, while ALPA filed a grievance5 over the alter-ego carrier (a label which remains with GoJet today).
A White Paper Analysis
Purpose:
The purpose of this document is to inform airline professionals on how GoJet Airlines, LLC adversely affects Trans States Pilots. While this white paper is factual, it is not meant to be unbiased or devoid of opinion. To the contrary, this document’s is designed to educate anyone considering a job or career with GoJet so that he or she may make an informed decision by answering this question: Will accepting a position at GoJet be detrimental to Trans States pilots and the airline industry as a whole?
Background:
In late 2003, Trans States Airlines management indicated their desire to acquire and operate large regional jet aircraft. In early 2004, the Trans States MEC and TSA management began negotiating rates of pay for large regional jet aircraft (i.e. those in excess of 64 seats). Despite months of negotiations, the TSA MEC was unable to reach an agreement on the substandard pay scales Trans States management demanded. As a result, in early fall of 2004 negotiations had diffused.
In October 2004, Trans States Airlines’ President announced a need to create another airline to operate large regional jet aircraft, citing the Allied Pilots Association (APA – American Airlines) scope language restricting Trans States Airlines from operating aircraft larger than 50 seats. This airline, GoJet, would be controlled by the newly created Trans States Holdings1. While the APA scope restrictions did exist, that limitation did not prevent two airlines with independent operating certificates from operating with one seniority list or under a single collective bargaining agreement.
Meanwhile, four TSA management pilots who were hired as GoJet pilots, signed authorization cards stating they wished to be represented by the Teamsters, and GoJet management secretly signed on to the bogus scheme. ALPA challenged this attempt with the National Mediation Board, claiming that the Teamsters could not be the bargaining representative of GoJet since GoJet had not yet obtained an operating certificate. ALPA’s challenge was upheld by the NMB. The Trans States MEC immediately requested a meeting with the President of Trans States Airlines, who, by no coincidence, would also be the President of GoJet Airlines. Only after informational picketing, a pilot rally at St. Louis and a letter written by then ALPA President Duane Woerth to TSA CEO Hulas Kanodia, was the President of TSA finally convinced to
meet and negotiate with the TSA MEC.Negotiations began in the summer of 2005. Throughout the negotiations, TSA took a take-it-or-leave-it approach. Eventually in late summer 20052 TSA management put their last, best proposal on the table. Their LOA proposal contained Single Carrier language, a Holding Company Letter (binding TSH to TSA CBA), merged seniority list, substandard 70/90 seat pay scales, and a contract extension of 4 years3. Unfortunately, the GoJet LOA, in the opinion of many TSA pilots, lacked true job security protection. Management’s LOA prevented the bumping of those pilots already at GoJet from their equipment in the event of a reduction in another piece of equipment. This was particularly sensitive to the J41 fleet, which had already been scheduled to be removed from service by mid 2006. ALPA had tried to remedy this inequity through an additional proposal that protected the Trans States pilots, but TSA management was not interested. The TSA MEC conducted a series of road shows that outlined what management’s LOA did and didn’t provide in terms of wages, duration and scope. The pilots of Trans States Airlines voted down the proposal 3 to 1 in what was clearly a very emotional vote.[/font]
[FONT='Times New Roman','serif']The Trans States MEC re-polled the pilots to determine why the vote failed and also attempted to resume negotiations, but Trans States management refused despite our best efforts to re-engage. ALPA also filed a petition with the NMB to recognize Trans States and GoJet as a single carrier. The NMB received briefs from the Company and ALPA. Primarily because the Company had separated the labor relations functions of TSA and GoJet, the NMB denied ALPA’s single carrier petition and Teamsters (IBT local 618) remained as the representational party. Trans States’ MEC also filed a Section 1 scope violation grievance, which remains pending today. The TSA CBA states that the Company shall not create or acquire an alter-ego to avoid the terms and conditions of this agreement5. Although ALPA lost the Single Carrier petition, a different standard will be used by an arbitrator on whether TSA violated that portion of the CBA
Ex-TSA Pilots
During the course of the GoJet negotiations in 2004 and 2005, two TSA pilots who had become Flight Managers4 assisted in the creation and operation of GoJet. These flight managers would later actively try to prevent ALPA from becoming the labor representation unit at GoJet by signing authorization cards with two others in an attempt to place IBT 618 on property and block any attempt by pilots to choose ALPA. In early 2005, these same pilots were directly involved with other senior TSA management personnel in union busting tactics that resulted in the wrongful termination of five union officers in a direct attempt to undermine the TSA MEC and ALPA.
In late 2005, after the LOA vote failed, TSA management began offering GoJet jobs to TSA pilots by enticing them with up to five years’ longevity. At the time, TSA pilots were actively demonstrating that GoJet flying belonged to and should be flown by TSA pilots on the TSA Seniority List. Only a few pilots from TSA rank and file went to GoJet, but their decision to do so at the expense of our campaign to unify these companies left deep scars and set off the beginning of a pilot war. Most of the ex-TSA pilots who went to GoJet were made check airmen and held IBT shop steward positions. Even members of IBT’s Airline Division Local 747 condemned the actions of IBT 618 to unionize this group while ALPA was trying to resolve the issues. TSA pilots wore “Alter EGoJet” badge backers in a visual display of their discontent, while ALPA filed a grievance5 over the alter-ego carrier (a label which remains with GoJet today).
07-01-2010, 07:54 PM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,530
Please let it die. Die thread, Die.
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