The Story of GoJet and Freedom A
02-11-2011, 04:56 PM
#1
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The Story of GoJet and Freedom A
I guess I'm primarily wondering about the stigma associated with Freedom B list and GoJet now.
But I also want to be able to decide for myself what I think is fair; so please correct and expand on my loose interpretation of the story:
Mesa wanted to fly CRJ 900's and pay pilots a certain amount. Mesa ALPA pilots wanted more money. The company created the non-union Freedom Airlines, and said "here is what we're paying, it's more than you make now with what you're flying, and if you come over, then you'll be senior to boot." Enough pilots went to allow Freedom to exist, thereby eliminating any chance of negotiating higher pay. Those were the Freedom A list pilots. On the next contract, all were integrated, Freedom became a part of ALPA, and new pay was negotiated. Integrated pilots, new hires, or anyone who bid over are considered Freedom B.
Trans States wanted to fly CRJ 700's and the same problems arose. They created the non-union GoJet. Pilots went. I'm not sure what happened next. I guess GoJet became Teamsters, and I believe now the companies are integrated to some degree?
Anyone who can add details to this story without getting too emotional about it, please chime in.
Thanks.
But I also want to be able to decide for myself what I think is fair; so please correct and expand on my loose interpretation of the story:
Mesa wanted to fly CRJ 900's and pay pilots a certain amount. Mesa ALPA pilots wanted more money. The company created the non-union Freedom Airlines, and said "here is what we're paying, it's more than you make now with what you're flying, and if you come over, then you'll be senior to boot." Enough pilots went to allow Freedom to exist, thereby eliminating any chance of negotiating higher pay. Those were the Freedom A list pilots. On the next contract, all were integrated, Freedom became a part of ALPA, and new pay was negotiated. Integrated pilots, new hires, or anyone who bid over are considered Freedom B.
Trans States wanted to fly CRJ 700's and the same problems arose. They created the non-union GoJet. Pilots went. I'm not sure what happened next. I guess GoJet became Teamsters, and I believe now the companies are integrated to some degree?
Anyone who can add details to this story without getting too emotional about it, please chime in.
Thanks.
02-11-2011, 05:34 PM
#3
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You pretty much have it right with Freedom. The "A Listers" contributed significantly to the concessionary contract which MAG ALPA signed in order to re-unify the two lists.
Gojet was a little more complicated. Freedom was created pretty much solely to circumvent MAG ALPA (ie "freedom from unions") but gojet was created because somebody's scope (AA?) prohibited TSA from flying > 50 seats so HK needed a new cert. But uncle Hulas took advantage of the opportunity to create a whipsaw alter-ego and enough junior TSA pilots jumped ship for quick upgrade to make it happen.
The whole teamsters thing was actually arranged and/or encouraged by management in order to provide a buffer against an alpa one-list campaign. IBT cheerfully went along with this scheme to clock-block alpa in exchange for a few dues bucks.
Gojet was a little more complicated. Freedom was created pretty much solely to circumvent MAG ALPA (ie "freedom from unions") but gojet was created because somebody's scope (AA?) prohibited TSA from flying > 50 seats so HK needed a new cert. But uncle Hulas took advantage of the opportunity to create a whipsaw alter-ego and enough junior TSA pilots jumped ship for quick upgrade to make it happen.
The whole teamsters thing was actually arranged and/or encouraged by management in order to provide a buffer against an alpa one-list campaign. IBT cheerfully went along with this scheme to clock-block alpa in exchange for a few dues bucks.
02-11-2011, 05:41 PM
#5
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The issue with GoJet wasn't just about pay it had more to do with a scope clause Trans States had with American limiting them to 50 seaters. Based on that contract Trans States couldn't fly anything over 50 seats even if it was for another airline. When United approached them about flying 70 seaters, they created a holding company (TSH) and GoJet. Threw TSA and GoJet under the TSH umbrella and used GoJet to fly the 70 seaters for UAL and as a whipsaw against TSA in contract negotiations.
edit:...and Rick beat me to it. oh well
edit:...and Rick beat me to it. oh well
02-11-2011, 06:38 PM
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Flyanddive and rick are correct. Gojet was created because of the AA scope clause. Different from Freedom. Unfortunately the contract that TSA had with management did not prohibit them from making a separate pilot list for Gojet. From what I understand the pilots of TSA were giving the opportunity to join but did not accept because of little to no additional benefits for these bigger planes. And so a happy family under TS Holdings was formed.
Since then Gojet became teamsters and basically have adopted the current TSA contract but with a little better pay.
Since then Gojet became teamsters and basically have adopted the current TSA contract but with a little better pay.
02-11-2011, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by hslightnin
what stigma with Freedom B?
They must, I suppose, because TSA have pilots on furlough still, and it looks like GoJet is hiring?
02-11-2011, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
You pretty much have it right with Freedom. The "A Listers" contributed significantly to the concessionary contract which MAG ALPA signed in order to re-unify the two lists.
Gojet was a little more complicated. Freedom was created pretty much solely to circumvent MAG ALPA (ie "freedom from unions") but gojet was created because somebody's scope (AA?) prohibited TSA from flying > 50 seats so HK needed a new cert. But uncle Hulas took advantage of the opportunity to create a whipsaw alter-ego and enough junior TSA pilots jumped ship for quick upgrade to make it happen.
The whole teamsters thing was actually arranged and/or encouraged by management in order to provide a buffer against an alpa one-list campaign. IBT cheerfully went along with this scheme to clock-block alpa in exchange for a few dues bucks.
Gojet was a little more complicated. Freedom was created pretty much solely to circumvent MAG ALPA (ie "freedom from unions") but gojet was created because somebody's scope (AA?) prohibited TSA from flying > 50 seats so HK needed a new cert. But uncle Hulas took advantage of the opportunity to create a whipsaw alter-ego and enough junior TSA pilots jumped ship for quick upgrade to make it happen.
The whole teamsters thing was actually arranged and/or encouraged by management in order to provide a buffer against an alpa one-list campaign. IBT cheerfully went along with this scheme to clock-block alpa in exchange for a few dues bucks.
Did GoJet or TSA ever fly >50 seats for American?
02-11-2011, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by PurpleCRJ
OK, I hear ya. That's not what I meant, sorry. I guess I was wondering if GoJet at present resembles Freedom B. Or do they still have some reparations to pay?
They must, I suppose, because TSA have pilots on furlough still, and it looks like GoJet is hiring?
They must, I suppose, because TSA have pilots on furlough still, and it looks like GoJet is hiring?
3 years later, the pilot groups are still completely separate. If you were a TSA pilot now, and wanted to fly on the CRJ700 and have an ORD base, you'd have to apply to the same person you applied to when you worked at TSA and go through the entire interview process and hold no seniority.....As I typed that out, I'm wondering if technically a TSA guy could walk in his own resume to HR for GoJet, because the same ladies do hiring for both companies.....
02-12-2011, 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted by atooraya
No, GoJet does not resemble Freedom. Actually, back in '08 when TSA lost all 10 of the AA airplanes that we flew, thereby nulling the contract and scope that AA had on the 70 seat airplanes, TSA furloughed all of the TSA guys, while GoJet was hiring. TSA was literally laying people off, while telling them they could interview to be on the GoJet list.
3 years later, the pilot groups are still completely separate. If you were a TSA pilot now, and wanted to fly on the CRJ700 and have an ORD base, you'd have to apply to the same person you applied to when you worked at TSA and go through the entire interview process and hold no seniority.....As I typed that out, I'm wondering if technically a TSA guy could walk in his own resume to HR for GoJet, because the same ladies do hiring for both companies.....
3 years later, the pilot groups are still completely separate. If you were a TSA pilot now, and wanted to fly on the CRJ700 and have an ORD base, you'd have to apply to the same person you applied to when you worked at TSA and go through the entire interview process and hold no seniority.....As I typed that out, I'm wondering if technically a TSA guy could walk in his own resume to HR for GoJet, because the same ladies do hiring for both companies.....
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