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Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
(Post 1549023)
Originally Posted by Captain Tony
(Post 1548826)
On the CRJ 700 you have to shut both fuel boost pumps during single engine taxi, or you get a large fuel imbalance. Maybe they forgot this and thought gravity cross flow would fix it faster. And also on all CRJs you can't sit more than 10 minutes with your lights on for cooling purposes. Sounds like these guys aren't too up on their systems knowledge. But hey, all DAL cares about is cheap feed...
ASA 's procedure is to turn off both boost pump switches on during single. Leaving the operating engine boost pump switch on accomplishes the same thing since there is no low pressure sensed. I've jumpsat on a Mesa 700 and I noticed they use the boost pump switch on operating engine technique . |
Ours are on from engine start checklist to parking checklist here at eagle. (Except for the check valve test)
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More GoJet haters...jeez dudes, find something productive to do with your time!!
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Originally Posted by nwa757
(Post 1548783)
This morning in RDU there was a GoJet who was sitting in the runup pad with its lights left on (while dark out, facing oncoming taxiing aircraft).
Then came the absurdity: After sitting there for a while they asked ground if they could taxi around the airport making all right turns in order to assist with fuel crossfeeding. I have never heard of anything so ridiculous. I was just imagining being a paying passenger on this flight. Wow. Ground said that they could send them to a pad where they would spin around in 360s as long as they wanted. They responded "sure sounds great". A few questions 1) Why did they even consider this? 2) How the he!! did they explain this to passengers? 3) Why did the Captain decide to leave the gate with such an imbalance? Did he have any backbone to just have the fueler fix the problem, or to call maintenance and have them deal with the issue? Pretty embarrassing to the piloting profession. Not trying to monday morning quarterback but I wouldn't have left the gate and put passengers in such an awkward strange situation...."spinning around on a taxiway due to a fuel problem." You're not gods gift to Aviation #1 #2: when I flew at Eagle we had to do the same one day because we had a cross flow pump MEL. We left the gate with balanced fuel and started both engines. By time we made it to the "white concrete" in LGA we had a 1000 pound imbalance. Did I mention we started both engines and this still occurred on a Next Gen CRJ-700. #3: I know you're probably the Airbus god or goddess and probably a peach to fly with but save the stupid comments for a different board. #4: just so I don't have to read your presumptuous remarks I'm not at Go Jets nor any other regional but I'm not ashamed nor do I forget where I came from unlike you! |
Originally Posted by pagey
(Post 1548972)
Why are you so caustic all the time? I don't work for GoJet and was simply pointing out our procedure.
Get over yourself. |
I say hats off to the crew for gettin er done. 10min delay for a couple 360's on the ramp or an hour to defuel. I'm sure the pax would much rather take the 10min. Thankfully i never ran into that problem on the crj, but i'm sure if i did, i would have done the same thing they did.....especially on day 4.
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Originally Posted by nwa757
(Post 1548783)
This morning in RDU there was a GoJet who was sitting in the runup pad with its lights left on (while dark out, facing oncoming taxiing aircraft).
Then came the absurdity: After sitting there for a while they asked ground if they could taxi around the airport making all right turns in order to assist with fuel crossfeeding. I have never heard of anything so ridiculous. I was just imagining being a paying passenger on this flight. Wow. Ground said that they could send them to a pad where they would spin around in 360s as long as they wanted. They responded "sure sounds great". A few questions 1) Why did they even consider this? 2) How the he!! did they explain this to passengers? 3) Why did the Captain decide to leave the gate with such an imbalance? Did he have any backbone to just have the fueler fix the problem, or to call maintenance and have them deal with the issue? Pretty embarrassing to the piloting profession. Not trying to monday morning quarterback but I wouldn't have left the gate and put passengers in such an awkward strange situation...."spinning around on a taxiway due to a fuel problem." |
Originally Posted by Captain Tony
(Post 1548826)
On the CRJ 700 you have to shut both fuel boost pumps during single engine taxi, or you get a large fuel imbalance. Maybe they forgot this and thought gravity cross flow would fix it faster. And also on all CRJs you can't sit more than 10 minutes with your lights on for cooling purposes. Sounds like these guys aren't too up on their systems knowledge. But hey, all DAL cares about is cheap feed...
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Shots fired!
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Originally Posted by Trip7
(Post 1549130)
You haven't flown the plane in how many years and you still remember that? Impressive.
ASA 's procedure is to turn off both boost pump switches on during single. Leaving the operating engine boost pump switch on accomplishes the same thing since there is no low pressure sensed. I've jumpsat on a Mesa 700 and I noticed they use the boost pump switch on operating engine technique . We ran only the operating side selected on at 9E. Not that they are the epitome of operating procedures, but it works. Turning both off, whatever.. accomplishing the same thing. |
Originally Posted by Captain Tony
(Post 1548826)
On the CRJ 700 you have to shut both fuel boost pumps during single engine taxi, or you get a large fuel imbalance. Maybe they forgot this and thought gravity cross flow would fix it faster. And also on all CRJs you can't sit more than 10 minutes with your lights on for cooling purposes. Sounds like these guys aren't too up on their systems knowledge. But hey, all DAL cares about is cheap feed...
The boost pumps are part of our 'cleared to start' check, and they stay on throughout the entire flight (unless for a fuel check valve check). It's company SOP and evidently varies by operator. Anyway - Taxiing single engine with both boost pumps on doesn't cause an imbalance. Not any more so than taxiing single engine with them off, anyway. There's a reason the EICAS displays caution messages with an engine operating and the fuel pumps 'off'. If it were proper, there'd be no message(s). Fuel sloshes, sometimes significantly when turning, but that's about it. |
Drifting is an awesome sport
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I would honestly be more embarrassed to come into a forum and complaint about it if people here knew who I was , I've seen this done before over the years, I was inside one of the aircraft once at air whiskey , the captain came over the PA and explained the situation. It was quicker than other options and got us in time to make our connections.
Seems very immature of you, and honestly seems like you just want to bad mouth Gojets . |
Originally Posted by AVIATOR3
(Post 1549327)
I would honestly be more embarrassed to come into a forum and complaint about it if people here knew who I was , I've seen this done before over the years, I was inside one of the aircraft once at air whiskey , the captain came over the PA and explained the situation. It was quicker than other options and got us in time to make our connections.
Seems very immature of you, and honestly seems like you just want to bad mouth Gojets . Just sad how things get twisted around on here |
Buaah... Man, some people just have no sense of humor. It was probably more like 2.72 degrees per second. ;) |
Originally Posted by Trip7
(Post 1549130)
You haven't flown the plane in how many years and you still remember that? Impressive.
ASA 's procedure is to turn off both boost pump switches on during single. Leaving the operating engine boost pump switch on accomplishes the same thing since there is no low pressure sensed. I've jumpsat on a Mesa 700 and I noticed they use the boost pump switch on operating engine technique .
Originally Posted by griff312
(Post 1548974)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but... I believe that when you're running a single engine, with any boost pump on, both pumps operate and provide 200% of what the engine needs into the fuel feed manifold. Then then excess fuel is returned to the tank of the operating side engine, via a return line and motive flow ejectors. This can easily cause an imbalance, but which is usually corrected with auto crossflow, when operating. I believe our MEL procedure when operating with an MEL'd crossflow pump is to operate with both engines running, so that the excess fuel returns to both wing tanks, instead of just one.
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Originally Posted by bernouli
(Post 1549315)
Originally Posted by Captain Tony
(Post 1548826)
On the CRJ 700 you have to shut both fuel boost pumps during single engine taxi, or you get a large fuel imbalance. Maybe they forgot this and thought gravity cross flow would fix it faster. And also on all CRJs you can't sit more than 10 minutes with your lights on for cooling purposes. Sounds like these guys aren't too up on their systems knowledge. But hey, all DAL cares about is cheap feed...
The boost pumps are part of our 'cleared to start' check, and they stay on throughout the entire flight (unless for a fuel check valve check). It's company SOP and evidently varies by operator. Anyway - Taxiing single engine with both boost pumps on doesn't cause an imbalance. Not any more so than taxiing single engine with them off, anyway. There's a reason the EICAS displays caution messages with an engine operating and the fuel pumps 'off'. If it were proper, there'd be no message(s). Fuel sloshes, sometimes significantly when turning, but that's about it. |
By definition, gravity X-feed only requires the low wing to be downhill... Park in a spot with the low wing lower than the high wing.... Add time, problem solved... eventually. Or just actually CHECK the fuel gages as part of the required preflight.
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Originally Posted by Trip7
(Post 1549904)
Taxing single engine with both pumps will cause an imbalance. The boost pump will detect low pressure and turn both pumps on, which will draw fuel to operating engine from both collector tanks. Some of that fuel will be burned and some will be returned to the collector tank, but only the operating engine collector tank, causing the operating engine side fuel tank to have more fuel than the shutdown side.
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Just had to bump this......
In DTW earlier, GoJet was trying to get to the 22L deice pad, so they felt the need to make the right turn into 2N right into the ramp....as we were trying to taxi out. Good thing there was just enough room to have them turn in, and go right back out. We contact ground, and ground tells us to follow them to the deice pad. I reply back with "We'll follow them, hopefully they know where they are going." Well sure as crap, they go right by the deice pad and continue to taxi. Ground yells at them to stop immediately. Nothing like a comical fun this morning. |
Ya cause you were born knowing the in's and out's outta every airport you operate into from day 1....
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Originally Posted by wmupilot85
(Post 1551154)
Just had to bump this......
In DTW earlier, GoJet was trying to get to the 22L deice pad, so they felt the need to make the right turn into 2N right into the ramp....as we were trying to taxi out. Good thing there was just enough room to have them turn in, and go right back out. We contact ground, and ground tells us to follow them to the deice pad. I reply back with "We'll follow them, hopefully they know where they are going." Well sure as crap, they go right by the deice pad and continue to taxi. Ground yells at them to stop immediately. Nothing like a comical fun this morning. Were you born with inertial navigation in your brain making you superior to all??? Glad to see you find comedy in guys doing the best they can. |
Why is this thread still open?
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Way too many high-horsed, juvenile riders in this playground.
+1, close this one up. |
There would defiantly be more than a few failed CRJ Orals in this thread.
The only time single engine your going to have a fuel imbalance problem, is if auto x flow is inhibited or mel'd, while running single engine. In which case single engine taxi will lead to a rapid imbalance, counter-intuitively dumping the excess fuel into the operating engines side (someone actually said it correctly than got called out as being incorrect). The most likely scenario to get to an extreme imbalance, is to inhibit fuel cross flow on your before take off checklist (2engines), and then subsequently have your clearance cancelled go into a ground stop and go back to single engine forgetting to reselect auto x flow. It will happen fast and become quickly imbalanced. Same thing can happen with the Mel if you don't heed the warning and decide to taxi out single engine with auto x flow disabled/mel'd, a rapid imbalance. Other than that the auto cross flow works pretty well as long as its on. |
Originally Posted by Cruz5350
(Post 1551163)
Ya cause you were born knowing the in's and out's outta every airport you operate into from day 1....
Originally Posted by carolinaflyer
(Post 1551230)
Were you born with inertial navigation in your brain making you superior to all??? Glad to see you find comedy in guys doing the best they can. I had a GoJets jumpseater last night and she showed me her schedule. Can someone explain to me how the block for the month can be higher than the credit? She said they constantly fight payroll for trying to screw them, have to pay claim all day sits, fight over perdiem, etc. How embarrassing. |
Originally Posted by carolinaflyer
(Post 1551230)
I'm glad it comes sooo naturally to you bud, but DTW is not the easiest place to taxi around, especially if you're not there on a very regular basis. The actual operation looks significantly different than the Jepp diagram and lots of crews can experience a missed turn or temporary disorientation. I've seen more than one Delta main liner do the Exact same thing.
Were you born with inertial navigation in your brain making you superior to all??? Glad to see you find comedy in guys doing the best they can. I only see ORD about 3-4 times a year, and guess what? I've never once had an issue there finding a taxi way or where I'm suppose to go, even in a crap storm. I can understand missing 1 turn, but turning onto the WRONG taxi way that is AWAY from the deicing equipment, then blocking operations, then finally figuring out where you're suppose to go and then going RIGHT past that spot is beyond excusable. And hey, when someone crashes a plane because they weren't sure what they were doing and kills 69 people, I guess you can just chalk it up to "they were just doing the best they can." |
Originally Posted by Reservist
(Post 1551346)
There would defiantly be more than a few failed CRJ Orals in this thread.
The only time single engine your going to have a fuel imbalance problem, is if auto x flow is inhibited or mel'd, while running single engine. In which case single engine taxi will lead to a rapid imbalance, counter-intuitively dumping the excess fuel into the operating engines side (someone actually said it correctly than got called out as being incorrect). The most likely scenario to get to an extreme imbalance, is to inhibit fuel cross flow on your before take off checklist (2engines), and then subsequently have your clearance cancelled go into a ground stop and go back to single engine forgetting to reselect auto x flow. It will happen fast and become quickly imbalanced. Same thing can happen with the Mel if you don't heed the warning and decide to taxi out single engine with auto x flow disabled/mel'd, a rapid imbalance. Other than that the auto cross flow works pretty well as long as its on. |
Originally Posted by BIGRIG
(Post 1551452)
I've seen it with my own eyes. Auto cross flow doesn't transfer enough fuel if you are taxiing single engine for extended periods of time.
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Originally Posted by carolinaflyer
(Post 1551230)
I'm glad it comes sooo naturally to you bud, but DTW is not the easiest place to taxi around, especially if you're not there on a very regular basis. The actual operation looks significantly different than the Jepp diagram and lots of crews can experience a missed turn or temporary disorientation. I've seen more than one Delta main liner do the Exact same thing.
Were you born with inertial navigation in your brain making you superior to all??? Glad to see you find comedy in guys doing the best they can. Its not a generalization if its true. Just like our MEC made it near impossible for anyone else to negotiate a good contract. |
Just wondering, how many planes has gojet crashed ? Pax mort ?
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Originally Posted by pengu
(Post 1551583)
Just wondering, how many planes has gojet crashed ? Pax mort ?
How many flights do they operate per day? And for how long? How many have ASA crashed due to pilots? 0. Also, in a much longer time in a much bigger operation. |
What's the real reason you GoJet bashers like flaming GJ? If you want to pick out stupid pilot tricks, go read AA and DAL accident / incident history for starters. I'm part 91 and ex-eagle and I must say some of the scariest flying I've seen has been from 10K + corporate guys... not regional guys.
Eagle had some generally excellent pilots, but even there, there were a select few that did dumb stuff (like trying to go 300 knots below 10,000, screwing up SIDS etc). So what is it? GJ pilots are all retarded? The move they made to do an end around the TSA scope (which happened years ago) and you're still upset about that? What is it really? I want to know, because all I see are people trying to build themselves up by bashing another pilot group. And IMHO, anyone who does that is nothing more than a person who doesn't have enough on the ball themselves to keep their mouth shut. |
Originally Posted by wmupilot85
(Post 1551443)
I only see ORD about 3-4 times a year, and guess what? I've never once had an issue there finding a taxi way or where I'm suppose to go, even in a crap storm.
I can understand missing 1 turn, but turning onto the WRONG taxi way that is AWAY from the deicing equipment, then blocking operations, then finally figuring out where you're suppose to go and then going RIGHT past that spot is beyond excusable. And hey, when someone crashes a plane because they weren't sure what they were doing and kills 69 people, I guess you can just chalk it up to "they were just doing the best they can." You've got much taxi experience do you? |
Originally Posted by wmupilot85
(Post 1551443)
I only see ORD about 3-4 times a year, and guess what? I've never once had an issue there finding a taxi way or where I'm suppose to go, even in a crap storm.
Originally Posted by wmupilot85
(Post 1551443)
And hey, when someone crashes a plane because they weren't sure what they were doing and kills 69 people, I guess you can just chalk it up to "they were just doing the best they can."
I couldn't care less about GoJets, but crap can happen to ANYBODY. |
Originally Posted by John Carr
(Post 1551753)
I couldn't care less about GoJets, but crap can happen to ANYBODY.
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Alright keyboard warriors, enough is enough.
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