Changing the Beard Rule
07-10-2019, 12:27 PM
#211
All is fine at .79
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Position: Paahlot
Posts: 4,082
Originally Posted by FollowMe
Any example of a professional fire department allowing their firefighters to enter a working fire with beards would also suffice.
I’ll hang up and listen to your response.
I’ll hang up and listen to your response.
U.S. District Judge James Robertson ruled that the district did not meet its burden of proof under the 1993 Religious Freedom Restoration Act to show that being clean-shaven is required to safely wear a self-contained breathing apparatus, or SCBA.
"Moreover, the Department has conceded that, for the vast majority of firefighter activity, a perfect seal between the face mask and the face is not required for safety," Robertson wrote. "The Department fully concedes that bearded firefighters have worn SCBA units for many years without incident."
"Moreover, the Department has conceded that, for the vast majority of firefighter activity, a perfect seal between the face mask and the face is not required for safety," Robertson wrote. "The Department fully concedes that bearded firefighters have worn SCBA units for many years without incident."
*victory lap
06-20-2021, 07:31 PM
#212
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 74
Facial Hair, is it time?
So now that the requirement to wear the oxygen mask above FL250 when the other pilot heads out has been changed as of last year, is now the time in the good ole USA to allow facial hair?! Besides the mustache, it seems to be forbidden in all FOMs, etc. All around the world, dozens of airlines seem to allow facial hair. Of course a neatly trimmed goatee or beard is what I have seen in my travels and what not. Clearly the “oxygen mask not sealing” doesn’t seem to indicate a safety concern. Is our more aligned with more military “clean shaven”, political influence from certain “hat wearing” airlines, or just simply undesirable for most pilots. I stand out of pure curiosity, I enjoy a goatee every now and then, just curious now Let em flow….?!
06-20-2021, 07:52 PM
#213
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,253
Some of it's cultural, like you say.
Some of it is company concerns about public perception since older generations of Americans (who are the biggest revenue demographic) still have some negative associations with beards, at least that they don't expect authority figures to have them. Overseas cops, military officers, doctors, etc commonly have beards/goatees.
Also companies frankly don't want to be in the business of adjudicating every individual pilot's interpretation of facial hair SOP, and you know that would be a problem.
Along those lines there's still the safety issue if it's a little too long...
Some of it is company concerns about public perception since older generations of Americans (who are the biggest revenue demographic) still have some negative associations with beards, at least that they don't expect authority figures to have them. Overseas cops, military officers, doctors, etc commonly have beards/goatees.
Also companies frankly don't want to be in the business of adjudicating every individual pilot's interpretation of facial hair SOP, and you know that would be a problem.
Along those lines there's still the safety issue if it's a little too long...
06-20-2021, 07:52 PM
#214
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 2,998
Originally Posted by TexBubba
So now that the requirement to wear the oxygen mask above FL250 when the other pilot heads out has been changed as of last year, is now the time in the good ole USA to allow facial hair?! Besides the mustache, it seems to be forbidden in all FOMs, etc. All around the world, dozens of airlines seem to allow facial hair. Of course a neatly trimmed goatee or beard is what I have seen in my travels and what not. Clearly the “oxygen mask not sealing” doesn’t seem to indicate a safety concern. Is our more aligned with more military “clean shaven”, political influence from certain “hat wearing” airlines, or just simply undesirable for most pilots. I stand out of pure curiosity, I enjoy a goatee every now and then, just curious now Let em flow….?!
06-20-2021, 10:32 PM
#218
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Position: CRJ FO
Posts: 130
Originally Posted by Halon1211
i don’t see how airlines around the world allow that because it is labeled on the oxygen mask that facial hair won’t allow a clean seal. Now I’m assuming that the manufacturer did a study on that, for them to put that label on the O2 mask.
https://www.sfu.ca/sfunews/stories/2...n-pilots-.html
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06-21-2021, 02:54 AM
#219
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 74
That’s a great article. It clearly shows how it’s purely a “cultural thing” here for some reason in the USA. I think a professional pilot can presumably be responsible for keeping in professional looking….in most cases! Ha. I wonder if it’s a union or certain airline or whatever it that puts resistance behind this. Quite silly to me it seems.
06-21-2021, 06:27 AM
#220
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,253
Originally Posted by FTv3
UPS just started allowing it this year. Most keep it neatly trimmed - don’t think it looks unprofessional at all.
If you want it, you probably will need to negotiate for it. If the company thinks you want it, they'll happily trade some hourly rate or work rules for goatees. But they probably won't give it away for free... so you'll need a majority of pilots in favor, and willing to horse trade for it. Maybe $1/hour across the board?
I'd guess the ULCC will go there first, so if your identity revolves around facial hair, might want to target those jobs for your career destination.
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