I routinely fly entire legs from t/o to ldg without the autopilot...on vfr days. On IFR days I'll hand fly up to 10K or cruise, and down from 5 or 6K to landing. I got into this to fly, so fly I do.

I'm a relatively low time pilot, but I would have to agree with FlyerJosh. There's a big difference between confidence and cockiness.

I don't like it when guys do this. I feel it puts my ticket in jeopardy. I have to pay even more attention to his flying to make sure there is no altitude deviation or wrong heading etc. Also, it is a rare individual that can hand fly smoother than the autopilot. I can fly the auto pilot much smoother than I can hand fly. I know that on those rare days I need to hand fly the adrenaline kicks in and I'm fine.


As for the original question, the problem with today's young aviators is their notion that $150K a year is good money. It's not! $300K/yr is more like it. When you consider the time away from family and the risks to career that may limit you to less than a 30 year career and throw in the stability of the airline you work for, $300K is the minimum we SHOULD make.

$150k/yr sounds great when you are young. Get in your 50s, when you see the end approaching and $150k doesn't cut it. Trust me.

I'm not flaming or blasting or anything like that. I understand that this is your job, your livelihood, and you'd like to continue to be able to do it without fear of losing your tickets. But isn't making sure that the FO is doing the right thing part of being a captain, and part of developing your FOs to one day become captains themselves?

I don't know about the MD-80, but I can certainly hand-fly smoother than the autopilot in the Dash. And the FD is always on and always set, so anything that we'd miss with the autopilot off would be missed with the autopilot on (except perhaps a slight altitude deviation).

Point taken. What I said was, I have to pay MORE attention. As for the AP, I don't know about the Dash 8, but I could fly the EMB-120 better on AP. Also, don't get me wrong, the MD-80 AP can be flown really badly. The throttles are the trickiest part. With practice though I think the AP is always smoother.

[quote=mike734;130352]I don't like it when guys do this. I feel it puts my ticket in jeopardy (sounds like your own competance is in question, sounds like you arent comfortable with your own flying). I have to pay even more attention to his flying to make sure there is no altitude deviation (altitude alerters are just about all programmed to sound at a 200-300 foot deviation) or wrong heading etc. Also, it is a rare individual that can hand fly smoother than the autopilot. I can fly the auto pilot much smoother than I can hand fly (speaks volumes). I know that on those rare days I need to hand fly the adrenaline kicks in and I'm fine.(you need adrenaline to handle your own "hand flying"? Everyone should be lucky that you have the "magic" to do your job for you?

"Mike" this is the classic "I am not too comfortable with my own flying so I am definitely not comfortable with the F/O flying..."

You feel your ticket is in question when the F/O is driving with the autopilot off? Keep in mind, the altitude alerter is programed in most airplanes for about a 200 foot buffer... aural warning outside of that.

You have adrenaline issues when you have to hand fly an airplane? Please dont ever come to where I work flying an old 4 engine jet that the auto pilots perform worse than the worst f/o you have flown with.

You think $300k is appropriate for someone who 1) really isnt comfortable hand flying an airplane 2) isnt comfortable with someone else flying the airplane?

First off I should not even answer someone who doesn't even know how to work the "reply" function on this forum but here goes.

I guess after 15000 hours I am a little complacent. (15000 incident free hours I might add)

The 200 foot deviation horn is not heard in my airplane or there is a problem. If I am flying with a guy who sets off the altitude horn he will not be hand flying. There is no excuse for setting off that horn.

I typically hand fly until about 5000 then use the AP until approach. I might kick it off intercepting the loc or at 200 feet or so. I am perfectly comfortable with my hand flying abilities. I've never failed a check of any sort and have had plenty of chances to do so. You may be able to hand fly smoother than the AP because you fly a DC-8 with a Jurassic AP. I won't mention the boxes don't complain.

As far as $300K. That is what we would all be making if our salaries kept up with inflation based on 1987 pay scales.

Mike,

Sorry for not properly using the "reply" button... this is my first day using the forum. I am comfortable with that though. It was not the reply function but rather the "quote" function that I tried to insert comments to your post.

You DID mention that the boxes dont complain... I cant say that is the first time I have heard a "pax pilot" condemn a cargo pilot, the contents in the back of the airplane do not define the professionalism of the pilot, you pretty much admitted your flying ability in stating "it takes an adrenaline rush to hand fly the airplane and you arent comfortable with an f/o hand flying". I am willing to bet my company pays me more in the right seat than yours in the left. You are correct... I have to fly the airplane better than the autopilot, I do not/can not rely on it. Maybe I should be paid $300k a year? We all know... the boxes pay a lot more to ride than the pax do.

I don't know how much your FOs get paid. I fly for Alaska and we used to be paid pretty well until an arbitrator gutted our contract. Now we top out at about 150K. I hope we get it all back soon. Time will tell. You're right though, boxes do pay. If this pilot shortage ever develops as I think it will, maybe we'll see the $300K numbers. Again, Time will......