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Quote:

Originally Posted by Han Solo (Post 2596672)

I see where you're going with this, but your analogy is a bit off. Marijuana is currently illegal and carries a significant social stigma, I can't think of a parallel substance. Maybe alcohol after prohibition, but alcohol wasn't illegal for all that long and there was no FAA when prohibition was repealed. To devil's advocate your devil's advocate, what substance has been illegal for 80+ years then been made legal, and then been approved for use by the FAA?

Remember, this is the organization that thinks my cell phone out of airplane mode is going to bring down an airliner. My offer stands, I bet 1 bag of cool ranch doritos that my 1st joint will be the day I turn 65 years old (or whatever the retirement age is when I finally get there) and not a day before (or after).

The social stigma only exists for citizens over the age of 70. They also happen to be the most reliable voters. There are less of them everyday.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronaldo (Post 2596637)

I agree with westernflight, metabolites are the issue. The second issue is rapid testing. The breathalyzer is not a final diagnostic tool in many states/countries, only blood tests (GC/MS). I would refuse a breathalyzer anytime in-lieu of a blood test if in a location where it’s allowed. Despite what you might think, this is legal in many states (not sure how DOT treats state officials administering breathalyzer for federal transportation), and not considered a refusal. There are many reasons a breathalyzer is flawed (hydration, lung volume, calibration, ketosis (acetone)), 1960 average lung volumes, etc.

Twenty years ago, my forensic chemistry teacher told us to always refuse and opt for blood tests. Now after 300+ cases, my defense attorney friend agrees. HOWEVER. this is not legal advice!!!

The problem with THC is there aren’t many funded studies to determine impairment levels. There’s a forensic scientist running around the halls of state legislature in CO claiming 0 ng/ml is a sound threshold. But that’s likely because she has a B.S in Chemistry from printurdegree.com and has some religious objection to it. I hate to disparage but only a fool would advocate for “0”. It shows a complete lack of scientific basis or reasoning.

Bottom line, DOT thresholds and DOD thresholds for THC/metabolites are around 15ng/ml but you can be convicted of impairment by local authorities at 3ng or less. It’ll be years before there is a consensus to convince the FAA. It’s been legal for decades in other ICAO countries, what are their standards? I don’t know.

Rapid field tests/roadside tests = Maury Povich of science. If it comes back that I have fathered 3 children with Olivia Wilde, I wouldn’t go buying diapers just yet.

When it comes to a roadside breathe test for DUI I’d say yes your chances are better if you refuse in favor of a blood test.

However, in the eyes of the FAA in terms of your medical certificate I think they classify a refusal the same as a positive breathe test. Just throwing that out there.

Btw getting a dui has always been extremely poor judgement but these days with the availability of ride sharing apps it’s just plain stupid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Han Solo (Post 2596672)

I agree with your sentiment, but isn’t the whole point of this thread the “what if” it was federally legalized? My point is simply if that happens there is no way to ignore that anything that is legal for adult consumption, the FAA has a stance on how long a pilot must wait before operating, but no outright bans. There’s no precedent for such a thing and it will be interesting to see how it’s argued out by the lawyers. Additionally another problem is THC isn’t currently being tested for. Only it’s metabolites. New tests need to be developed. I’m sure someone out there has had the same thought and is working on it. Patenting a new standard could be very lucrative.

As stated before, if two people consumed the same amount of alcohol and one person took 8 hours to be under the limit but the other took 5 days, would we accept that as a valid testing method? Why is there only one substance out there that we accept a test of this nature? If you look way back to the reasons it was originally outlawed I think you might find the answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Westernflight (Post 2596761)

As stated before, if two people consumed the same amount of alcohol and one person took 8 hours to be under the limit but the other took 5 days, would we accept that as a valid testing method? Why is there only one substance out there that we accept a test of this nature? If you look way back to the reasons it was originally outlawed I think you might find the answer.

Because it wasn't legal at all anywhere in the US a couple years ago, so the test only needed to determine if you'd been using it period.

IF it gets federally legalized, and IF the DOT (and DOD, and DOJ, etc) decide that it's OK to use, then they'll have to figure out how much you can smoke, how long ago, and develop a test for that specifically.

Don't hold your breath (pun intended), the feds will not be falling all over themselves to ensure the rights of airline pilots, soldiers, and cops to blaze up. That will take an act of congress.

Well Canada has just legalized Marijuana in the entire country. It'll be interesting to see if Canadian Pilots are allowed to use it. Should be the same rules as alcohol but if there's no test that can determine recent use I can see where the Canadian version of the FAA wouldn't allow it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AirBear (Post 2618208)

It will never be okay for pilots to be using Mj. The public can accept the boozehound mentality among us, but the stigma attached to pot is too strong.
Just wait till you retire if you must.

A study published at Columbia University determined alcohol was a contributing factor in 40% of fatal traffic accidents in the 1999-2010. Marijuana, 12% over the same period. Altogether, a driver's risk being involved in a traffic fatality rises 24 times when using both. Both are presumably even riskier as applied to aircraft operations. Anyone who's smoked understands time/distance relationships are rearranged under the influence, which can last a while. Until the testing gets a lot more definitive, wouldn't look for a change in policy anytime soon.

Quote:

Don't hold your breath (pun intended), the feds will not be falling all over themselves to ensure the rights of airline pilots, soldiers, and cops to blaze up. That will take an act of congress.

Most cops only get pre-employment and post accident testing. Crazy right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AirBear (Post 2618208)

Canada airlines do not have random drug tests fyi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gooselives (Post 2624135)

Canada airlines do not have random drug tests fyi

That probably doesn't mean it's legal for pilots to use, it just means you won't get caught until you have an accident, or your use shows up on social media, or the angry ex dimes you out.