Originally Posted by rickair7777

No, it's "out of control" because it's capabilities, and therefore costs, keep increasing. But people don't want to pay more for more capabilities.

Preventative care won't solve the problem for poor and illegals, their lifestyles are still going to be unhealthy due to poor choices.

Originally Posted by jcountry

That young lady is the best anti-drug commercial I’ve seen in a while......

Wonder what her mommy was on.... Draino? Maybe bathtub meth?

AOC truly shows that brain-damaged people can go far.

She is pure comedy gold!

Originally Posted by rickair7777

No, it's "out of control" because it's capabilities, and therefore costs, keep increasing. But people don't want to pay more for more capabilities.

Originally Posted by Name User

That's an often quoted figure from the more conservative viewpoint and while I semi agree with the sentiment the actual nuts and bolts of why the poor and working poor class is growing isn't because of a cell phone.

If you go back to 1950 vs today what you'll find has gone up the most is housing - back then roughly 22% of the household budget went to your home and associated bills. Today it's double that at around 43%. That being said, when you look at what middle class homes were back then (and where they are located today) those same homes are still there (if they haven't been torn down and gentrified) but who is living there? Mostly ghetto and working poor neighborhoods.

Food and clothing spending is down, amazingly households used to spend more on food than they spent on housing. That changed as farms became mechanized and labor costs came down.

Spending on transportation is actually fairly flat - with modern production and longevity of vehicles these days cars are more expensive relative to inflation and we have more of them (because we have many two earner households) but they last considerably longer.

Lots of smartphones out today for under $100 on prepaid cell networks. As a % of budget, it's a pretty small amount for even the working poor. I do notice however when our newer FAs, earning $20,000 a year, have an expensive phone. (I was told I had an "old school" phone, an iPhone SE, I bought for $99)

College used to be fairly inexpensive relative to inflation and there was also a time when simply having a degree would guarantee you a job in the upper crust of earners. We've almost flipped in many areas such as computer science, employers these days are looking at graduates of short, focused "coding schools" which output qualified folks for a fraction of the cost of a four year degree.

This is a result of the government wanting to do well and give everyone access by giving subsidized loans to who ever signs on the dotted line, it was a boon at first but now the value of a college degree has been greatly diminished and costs have soared. A bad combo.

Originally Posted by FNGFO

You missed my overarching theme. That being that the working poor and middle class are drowning under payments on financed things. iPhones, TV’s, cars, student loans and housing.

My experience is that the majority aren’t buying $100 used phones, but financing $700 ones over 24 months or something.

I’m under no illusion that it’s not a real tough row to hoe to achieve mobility between wealth classes, it it’s impossible when you bury yourself under debt.

I agree with much of the rest that you posted.

Originally Posted by Rama

Its not that they donʻt give a crap, its they donʻt give enough of a crap.
Housing, food and transportation are still typically the highest cost (education as well if applicable) items that people pay.
I see so many of the ramp/baggage other workers getting their daily Starbucks and lunch at the concession stands its mind boggling.

Originally Posted by ChecklistMonkey

You realize the GND is just a framework for things to shoot for. If it was passed, it would literally do nothing. It won't get passed anyway. Your stupid conservative fear mongering news sites are creating this buzz over legislation that carries the same weight as one that says congrats to world series winners.

Originally Posted by Name User

A $700 phone over 24 months is $29/month. Or four hours of work monthly. Hardly what is keeping someone poor.

Contrast that with large increases in rent over the past few years, which has a much higher impact on one's monthly finances. And medical insurance and deductibles that have climbed considerably.

Look at some graphs of incomes and wage increases by income level and you'll see why the middle and working poor aren't able to paddle upstream against the current.

That being said, and this makes me kind of a dick, but the reality seems like the bottom 70% of workers really don't give a crap and don't put the effort into getting ahead. People make stupid choices every day and if they had more money would they be better off? I don't really think so. They would just own a nicer car, or a more expensive watch, or nicer clothes. They wouldn't take the difference and consciously invest for their future.

What makes America great (for now) is one can be born in poverty and yes, actually, you can work your way out of it and into wealth.

What middle America had access to in 1950 is essentially where the poor are now - housing, reliable transportation, refrigerated food, etc.

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Mexico, of course.