Originally Posted by FNGFO

You’re still missing it. $29 for an iPhone isn’t back breaking in and of itself. $29 for a phone, $110 for a set of TV’s, $350 for a student loan payment $425 for a car payment, $1200 for the mortgage/rent and add in all the various minimum monthly payments on credit cards and like items and suddenly $2200 of the $3750 take home pay of the average American’s income is out the door before you even think about food, water, lights, clothing, school paraphernalia and other things. And that’s before trying to save money for college educations, retirement etc. The remaining $1500 doesn’t go far for a family of four, and we’re talking average household income in the US and not low wage earners. In fact, I would suggest that most months it’s a struggle to make ends meet, and a good month they might break even by $100-200.

I agree with a ton of what you’re saying, but giving that average family breathing room by relieving them of $1000-1200 a month of debt payments makes all the difference in the world to them. That assumes that they continue to spend and save wisely and save up for the next purchase instead of financing it. They can eventually start getting some of those nicer things. Suddenly they might be able to save up a rainy day fund for the if in life, and not throw that on a CC or whatnot. Saving for college becomes a real possibility. Even matching their 401k is doable with $4-500 left to spare at the end of the month.

It matters. Just giving them extra money without changing their spending and saving behaviors accomplishes nothing. It’s just how to be poor while working with extra zeroes. But it is doable if not particularly en vogue.

Originally Posted by 4fans

You think someone dumb enough to spend that much on things they can’t afford by running up debt with the money they ACTUALLY EARN are going to make good retirement savings decisions with a free handout? I have tons saved for retirement and have never had a 425 dollar car payment in my life! You don’t have to have a 700 dollar phone to be successful in this country. You don’t have to have a 25,000 dollar car either. Until people can have the discipline to live within their means with their own money, they shouldn’t be given handouts. I’m only applying this to your example, not to the actual working poor who can’t afford to feed their family on what they earn.

Originally Posted by FNGFO

I never suggested a handout. At all. In any way. In any of my posts. Nor did I suggest that a person incurring that debt would make good decisions about heir retirement savings if they were relieved of that debt. In fact, I said just the opposite in the last paragraph of the post you quoted.

Reading is fundamental.

Originally Posted by Crown

for all of you Ocasio lovers in this thread, and there's quite a few of you, proof that not only is she a massive hypocrite, but that she practices traditional democratic policy of "do as I say, not as I do".

https://nypost.com/2019/03/03/ocasio...-in-the-world/

Originally Posted by at6d

Originally Posted by ChecklistMonkey

I don't like her. But this argument still falls under the lunacy of "I can't be pro-green intiatives" if I'm a pilot.

Originally Posted by Name User

Some interesting reading and the impact on our industry:

https://gcaptain.com/shippings-2020-...-hit-airlines/

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/03/01/bigg...se-prices.html

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/imo...fuel-1.4880166