High speed rail in the NE
#21
We already HAD high speed rail in the NE US, and all over the country, starting in the 1920s. They went the same speed as the Acela does today...it is slow speed.
High speed rail is the most efficient people transportation from about 150-650 miles. For maximum efficiency in Our Economy, we SHOULD have high speed rail in a number of corridors.
Japan is planned maglev from Tokyo-Nagoya-Osaka. It turned out it would cost $1B USD per mile. They are ALREADY building it. They ran the numbers, and it showed that spending that massive amount of Federal money, would drastically help the economy, overall.
We are stupid. We gave up our lead in high speed rail. We gave up our lead in Solar, Wind, Electric cars, steel, etc., etc. Now, instead of building high speed rail in the US, we will be forced to buy it from another country. Now, instead of Mexico having us build a massive solar facility, they are having China do it.
Our Government decided that letting GM, Standard Oil, and Firestone destroy Our US rail system, was a good idea. It wasn't. And now, we don't have high speed rail anywhere in the US, and Our Economy is suffering because of it...
High speed rail is the most efficient people transportation from about 150-650 miles. For maximum efficiency in Our Economy, we SHOULD have high speed rail in a number of corridors.
Japan is planned maglev from Tokyo-Nagoya-Osaka. It turned out it would cost $1B USD per mile. They are ALREADY building it. They ran the numbers, and it showed that spending that massive amount of Federal money, would drastically help the economy, overall.
We are stupid. We gave up our lead in high speed rail. We gave up our lead in Solar, Wind, Electric cars, steel, etc., etc. Now, instead of building high speed rail in the US, we will be forced to buy it from another country. Now, instead of Mexico having us build a massive solar facility, they are having China do it.
Our Government decided that letting GM, Standard Oil, and Firestone destroy Our US rail system, was a good idea. It wasn't. And now, we don't have high speed rail anywhere in the US, and Our Economy is suffering because of it...
Just try to bulldoze a HSR corridor thru the NE.
GF
#22
We were #1 in high speed rail R&D, Production, Installation and Operation. Then we gave all of the above up, and let other countries take the lead. We could still be the high speed rail leader, and be selling our trains all over the world, and employ lots of workers in the industry. We are stupid.
#23
We were #1 in high speed rail R&D, Production, Installation and Operation. Then we gave all of the above up, and let other countries take the lead. We could still be the high speed rail leader, and be selling our trains all over the world, and employ lots of workers in the industry. We are stupid.
But the other problem with rail is we like our cars. I for one am not taking a train or bus. Only take a plane if it's free or it's a long trip. I might end up driving a battery powered car, but no trains or buses.
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 343
From what I understand, high speed service between DC-Boston begins in 2021..
https://youtu.be/WH-3FsmU6KQ
https://youtu.be/WH-3FsmU6KQ
#26
From what I understand, high speed service between DC-Boston begins in 2021..
https://youtu.be/WH-3FsmU6KQ
https://youtu.be/WH-3FsmU6KQ
HORNELL, N.Y. -- The future of American high-speed rail is sitting in a building older than the Battle of Gettysburg: a cavernous factory that holds the first shells of a $2 billion fleet of Amtrak Acela trains due to begin running from Washington, D.C., to Boston two years from now.
Even as Congress moves toward renewed debates over the future of both Amtrak and high-speed rail, the first of 28 new Acela train sets are starting to take shape here. They are the first new generation of passenger trains on the railroad since the Acela's debut in 2000.
For Amtrak, that means a chance to relaunch a service that has been both a commercial success and a procurement headache -- and still the nearest approximation in the U.S. to the high-speed trains that whisk travelers among major cities in Europe and Asia.
Amtrak is buying 28 new sets of power cars and passenger coaches from French manufacturer Alstom SA, which is assembling the trains at its complex of plants in New York's Southern Tier. The train model, known as Avelia Liberty, is from a family of trains already in use in France and Italy, Amtrak executives say.
The new trains will be slowly entering the existing Acela service and will have a top speed of 160 miles an hour, up from 150 miles an hour on the current fleet. The trains will be built to tilt up to 6.3 degrees, allowing trains to run faster in curves and save energy by avoiding braking for some turns.
Average speeds will be much lower, since the Acela will still run on the Northeast Corridor, whose curves will limit trains to top speed in just a few spots. And unlike high-speed trains in Europe and Asia, the Acela shares tracks with commuter trains and freight lines, requiring it to reduce speeds. The new trains will be capable of going up to 186 miles an hour if tracks are later upgraded, Alstom says.
Alstom says the Amtrak contract is helping seed new expertise in their industry.
Mr. MacDonald noted the example of TTA Systems LLC, which has worked with Alstom in Hornell for years. TTA Systems is now building the tilting "bogies" -- the crucial assemblies that connect to train cars and carry their wheels.
"They've overhauled 30-year-old bogies for years that are on a metro car that's going 30 miles an hour," Mr. MacDonald said. "This is going to 170 miles an hour, and it's going to tilt. It's a different animal."
Even as Congress moves toward renewed debates over the future of both Amtrak and high-speed rail, the first of 28 new Acela train sets are starting to take shape here. They are the first new generation of passenger trains on the railroad since the Acela's debut in 2000.
For Amtrak, that means a chance to relaunch a service that has been both a commercial success and a procurement headache -- and still the nearest approximation in the U.S. to the high-speed trains that whisk travelers among major cities in Europe and Asia.
Amtrak is buying 28 new sets of power cars and passenger coaches from French manufacturer Alstom SA, which is assembling the trains at its complex of plants in New York's Southern Tier. The train model, known as Avelia Liberty, is from a family of trains already in use in France and Italy, Amtrak executives say.
The new trains will be slowly entering the existing Acela service and will have a top speed of 160 miles an hour, up from 150 miles an hour on the current fleet. The trains will be built to tilt up to 6.3 degrees, allowing trains to run faster in curves and save energy by avoiding braking for some turns.
Average speeds will be much lower, since the Acela will still run on the Northeast Corridor, whose curves will limit trains to top speed in just a few spots. And unlike high-speed trains in Europe and Asia, the Acela shares tracks with commuter trains and freight lines, requiring it to reduce speeds. The new trains will be capable of going up to 186 miles an hour if tracks are later upgraded, Alstom says.
Alstom says the Amtrak contract is helping seed new expertise in their industry.
Mr. MacDonald noted the example of TTA Systems LLC, which has worked with Alstom in Hornell for years. TTA Systems is now building the tilting "bogies" -- the crucial assemblies that connect to train cars and carry their wheels.
"They've overhauled 30-year-old bogies for years that are on a metro car that's going 30 miles an hour," Mr. MacDonald said. "This is going to 170 miles an hour, and it's going to tilt. It's a different animal."
Improving parts of a process that ARE NOT THE LIMITING FACTOR makes trivial if any improvement in process throughput. The ability to travel at 160 mph rather than 150 mph for the five to ten minutes you are on track actually capable of allowing you to go at either speed results in a truly trivial difference in trip length speed and the increased speed permitted by the tilting bogies is similarly limited, affecting operations only in those very few areas where cornering is the limiting factor.
And this is being paid for by a $2 Billion LOAN which must be paid for with NEC revenue.
Last edited by Excargodog; 09-02-2019 at 06:49 AM.
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 343
Improving parts of a process that ARE NOT THE LIMITING FACTOR makes trivial if any improvement in process throughput. The ability to travel at 160 mph rather than 150 mph for the five to ten minutes you are on track actually capable of allowing you to go at either speed results in a truly trivial difference in trip length speed and the increased speed permitted by the tilting bogies is similarly limited, affecting operations only in those very few areas where cornering is the limiting factor.
And this is being paid for by a $2 Billion LOAN which must be paid for with NEC revenue.
#28
It can, but it is a Theory of Constraints issue. The ability to corner at speed is the limiting factor on only a tiny part of the system. Being able to go marginally faster on only a tiny part of a train trip yields an almost imperceptible improvement in speed.
Now the increased car passenger carrying capacity can add to the number of passengers that can be carried - and that’s perhaps a good thing - but adding one extra car to the old train sets would have accomplished the same thing.
https://www.tocinstitute.org/theory-of-constraints.html
On Amtrak’s forty-mile run between Washington, D.C., and Baltimore, for example, trains run as fast as 125 mph on some segments. But because all trains on the line must spend a long time creeping through the yard at Washington’s Union Station and through antiquated tunnels under Baltimore Harbor, the average speed of even the fastest scheduled train, the vaunted Acela, is only 83.4 mph. Increasing speeds on the slowest segments of the line would do as much or more to shorten travel times as making the fastest speeds faster, and wouldn’t require an expensive new right-of-way or new equipment.
The top speed obtained by any train is 150 mph, and that happens only in a brief segment of Rhode Island. The average speed is much lower, even to the point that the schedule today between New York and Boston is only nineteen minutes faster than that achieved by the New Haven Railroad’s “Merchants Limited” in 1954
The top speed obtained by any train is 150 mph, and that happens only in a brief segment of Rhode Island. The average speed is much lower, even to the point that the schedule today between New York and Boston is only nineteen minutes faster than that achieved by the New Haven Railroad’s “Merchants Limited” in 1954
Last edited by Excargodog; 09-02-2019 at 08:01 AM.
#29
1. Veeeery shallow curve, so you hardly feel the G's. Problem here is you have to move buildings, roads, mountains, lakes, etc out of the way in order to lay the track along the desired route.
2. Banked curve, but the bank only works at the speed it was intended for, too slow or two fast and it's uncomfortable for pax and at some point the train will tip over. I don't think a stationary or very slow train could sit upright on a tight curve banked for 200 mph, pretty sure it would tip over. That's a problem if you have to slow or stop unexpectedly.
3. Wheel system that locks onto the rails, like a roller coaster. But this adds cost and complexity to both the wheels and rails, and would very uncomfortable for pax. They'd be in four-point harnesses and the ride would resemble, well a roller coaster. You could in theory combine this with a cabin which swivels to the appropriate back angle to curve (like a plane in coordinated flight) to eliminate side forces for the pax, but you'd still get every bit of the G's in the down direction. A tight curve at speed would be too many G's for pax safety.
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