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-   -   Many Commitments for Electric Training Plane (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/hangar-talk/123047-many-commitments-electric-training-plane.html)

Excargodog 07-24-2019 11:43 AM
Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 2858393)
Making batteries five times more efficient (ie specific energy) than today's commercially available batteries equates to the absolute theoretical chemical max of about 1,000 Wh/Kg.

Kerosene specific energy is 12,000 Wh/Kg.

If you have an interest in electric planes, you need to understand that 12 to 1 specific energy advantage of jet fuel. And that's only with a 500% improvement in current batteries (theoretical max).
[RANT]There are fewer things in my life I have found more frustrating than explaining the laws of thermodynamics to avid environmentalists. I can understand them not being able to get it, there are a lot of people in our society that haven’t the most basic understanding of science or technology. It’s the head-patting and condescension from the people who don’t have a clue about what you just said, far less the immutability of it that gets me. It reminds me vaguely of when the Indiana State legislature had a bill before it to change the value of pi in the state of Indiana to 3.2.

:eek:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kionasm.../#5b3e2544260a

[/RANT]

:rolleyes:

TiredSoul 07-25-2019 06:42 AM
Electric will never be more then a niche.
Think everything that’s got a snowmobile engine now...oh I’m sorry I meant Rotax.

dera 07-25-2019 07:46 PM
Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 2858393)
Making batteries five times more efficient (ie specific energy) than today's commercially available batteries equates to the absolute theoretical chemical max of about 1,000 Wh/Kg.

Kerosene specific energy is 12,000 Wh/Kg.

If you have an interest in electric planes, you need to understand that 12 to 1 specific energy advantage of jet fuel. And that's only with a 500% improvement in current batteries (theoretical max).
It's actually closer to 6 to 1, because electric motors are close to 2x more efficient than jet engines.

Still way too far out to be practical, obviously.

rickair7777 07-26-2019 07:21 AM
Originally Posted by dera (Post 2859448)
It's actually closer to 6 to 1, because electric motors are close to 2x more efficient than jet engines.

Still way too far out to be practical, obviously.
Still have transmission and control losses, but the inherent efficiency of electric motors would enable better use of the energy deliver to the motor. Might close the gap to 8 to 1, bearing in mind there are some incremental improvements in jet engines coming down the pipe.

Mesabah 07-26-2019 07:18 PM
Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 2858393)
Making batteries five times more efficient (ie specific energy) than today's commercially available batteries equates to the absolute theoretical chemical max of about 1,000 Wh/Kg.

Kerosene specific energy is 12,000 Wh/Kg.

If you have an interest in electric planes, you need to understand that 12 to 1 specific energy advantage of jet fuel. And that's only with a 500% improvement in current batteries (theoretical max).
The science community has bet the entire planet on inventing that battery in the next decade. This will go down in history as mankind's biggest mistake.

kaputt 07-31-2019 01:15 PM
My question is, what is the recharge time on these? If they are targeting the flight training market, many flights schools fly back to back flights in the same airplanes all day long. Even an hour recharge time would be a significant issue to many flight school as far as aircraft utilization goes.


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