Yeager’s NF-104 Supersonic Spin
12-12-2019, 04:48 AM
#1
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Yeager’s NF-104 Supersonic Spin
USAF recently released ground footage of Yeager on his ill-fated NF-104 flight, dramatized in “The Right Stuff.”
While grainy with film quality of the era...impressive as hell. The suddenness of the initial yaw angles is amazing.
You can see an anti-spin drag chute towards the end (to me, it looks like he recovered, but was too low for the dive pullout), and the ejection, too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...rc4VrLSahdocUg
While grainy with film quality of the era...impressive as hell. The suddenness of the initial yaw angles is amazing.
You can see an anti-spin drag chute towards the end (to me, it looks like he recovered, but was too low for the dive pullout), and the ejection, too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...rc4VrLSahdocUg
12-12-2019, 05:25 AM
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This video is gold. Too bad it’s not accompanied with the audio. In test pilot George Marrett’s book “Contrails over the Mojave” he puts the blame for the accident squarely on Yeager for not following certain procedures. Of course I’m not 2% the pilot Yeager was/is, so I’m not judging. Amazing video. Interestingly, as has happened in other accidents, as soon as the seat left the aircraft, the jet stabilized on its own, probably from both change in CG and/or change in airflow due to now missing canopy.
12-12-2019, 05:48 AM
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Also consider that aerodynamic controls were insufficient for normal attitude control at altitude. Spacecraft attitude thrusters were used for at least yaw, you can see them on the nose during the preflight. Using those to control an F-104 has got to be a special kind of special.
12-12-2019, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
Also consider that aerodynamic controls were insufficient for normal attitude control at altitude. Spacecraft attitude thrusters were used for at least yaw, you can see them on the nose during the preflight. Using those to control an F-104 has got to be a special kind of special.
An X-15 was lost in a spin in a similar incident (1967; Pilot Michael Adams, killed) at Mach 5; g-forces exceeded 15 vertical and 8 lateral, and it broke up.
It said either in the video, or the text below it, that the J79 was shut down prior to the zoom. I know this had to be done above about 65,000 with that engine; it was done so in the F-4 for record climbs. Accident report blamed it partially on gyroscopic precession during the rolldown. Seems questionable.
But it does appear he was recovered from the spin, and likely did not yet have an airstart...and possibly not enough windmilling rpm for flight controls to pull out of the dive.
Addendum: someone with more knowledge stated the spin WAS stopped, but the engine was down to 6%...not enough for an airstart in limited time.
Last edited by UAL T38 Phlyer; 12-12-2019 at 06:28 AM.
01-01-2020, 06:58 AM
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I am not smart enough or knowledgeable enough or credible enough to come on here and formulate my own opinion on this accident- especially since I was never a test pilot and I was only 10 months old on the day of this accident.
That said, Frank Borman wrote his memoirs in a book called “Countdown.”
In that book he addressed this accident. He was very blunt and pulled no punches. I’m paraphrasing but, essentially, Borman’s take was that the flight was an unnecessary stunt(his word) that contributed nothing to research and/or development and was nothing more than an attempt to set another record. According to Borman, Yeager had not completed the full Aerospace Research Pilot School curriculum necessary to fly the NF-104 to its design envelope limits. In essence, his ego wrote a check that his body very nearly couldn’t cash. The feeling amongst the rank and file was that, because he was the C.O. Of ARPS, he could do whatever he wanted.
Borman’s final words on the subject were that Yeager’s actions destroyed a very valuable research tool.
To make matters worse, after the accident, top USAF brass figured (incorrectly, as it turned it) that if the airplane had nearly killed the “immortal Yeager”, it MUST be inherently dangerous and unsafe- so they grounded it for some time.
The post- Accident investigation showed that, among other mistakes, Yeager flew a completely incorrect zoom-climb profile.
The NF-104 was developed specifically for ARPS and without it, the school had no airborne platform for future USAF pilot/astronauts to develop space vehicle techniques.
That said, Frank Borman wrote his memoirs in a book called “Countdown.”
In that book he addressed this accident. He was very blunt and pulled no punches. I’m paraphrasing but, essentially, Borman’s take was that the flight was an unnecessary stunt(his word) that contributed nothing to research and/or development and was nothing more than an attempt to set another record. According to Borman, Yeager had not completed the full Aerospace Research Pilot School curriculum necessary to fly the NF-104 to its design envelope limits. In essence, his ego wrote a check that his body very nearly couldn’t cash. The feeling amongst the rank and file was that, because he was the C.O. Of ARPS, he could do whatever he wanted.
Borman’s final words on the subject were that Yeager’s actions destroyed a very valuable research tool.
To make matters worse, after the accident, top USAF brass figured (incorrectly, as it turned it) that if the airplane had nearly killed the “immortal Yeager”, it MUST be inherently dangerous and unsafe- so they grounded it for some time.
The post- Accident investigation showed that, among other mistakes, Yeager flew a completely incorrect zoom-climb profile.
The NF-104 was developed specifically for ARPS and without it, the school had no airborne platform for future USAF pilot/astronauts to develop space vehicle techniques.
Last edited by klondike; 01-01-2020 at 07:22 AM.
01-01-2020, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by klondike
I am not smart enough or knowledgeable enough or credible enough to come on here and formulate my own opinion on this accident- especially since I was never a test pilot and I was only 10 months old on the day of this accident.
That said, Frank Borman wrote his memoirs in a book called “Countdown.”
In that book he addressed this accident. He was very blunt and pulled no punches. I’m paraphrasing but, essentially, Borman’s take was that the flight was an unnecessary stunt(his word) that contributed nothing to research and/or development and was nothing more than an attempt to set another record. According to Borman, Yeager had not completed the full Aerospace Research Pilot School curriculum necessary to fly the NF-104 to its design envelope limits. In essence, his ego wrote a check that his body very nearly couldn’t cash. The feeling amongst the rank and file was that, because he was the C.O. Of ARPS, he could do whatever he wanted.
Borman’s final words on the subject were that Yeager’s actions destroyed a very valuable research tool.
To make matters worse, after the accident, top USAF brass figured (incorrectly, as it turned it) that if the airplane had nearly killed the “immortal Yeager”, it MUST be inherently dangerous and unsafe- so they grounded it for some time.
The post- Accident investigation showed that, among other mistakes, Yeager flew a completely incorrect zoom-climb profile.
The NF-104 was developed specifically for ARPS and without it, the school had no airborne platform for future USAF pilot/astronauts to develop space vehicle techniques.
That said, Frank Borman wrote his memoirs in a book called “Countdown.”
In that book he addressed this accident. He was very blunt and pulled no punches. I’m paraphrasing but, essentially, Borman’s take was that the flight was an unnecessary stunt(his word) that contributed nothing to research and/or development and was nothing more than an attempt to set another record. According to Borman, Yeager had not completed the full Aerospace Research Pilot School curriculum necessary to fly the NF-104 to its design envelope limits. In essence, his ego wrote a check that his body very nearly couldn’t cash. The feeling amongst the rank and file was that, because he was the C.O. Of ARPS, he could do whatever he wanted.
Borman’s final words on the subject were that Yeager’s actions destroyed a very valuable research tool.
To make matters worse, after the accident, top USAF brass figured (incorrectly, as it turned it) that if the airplane had nearly killed the “immortal Yeager”, it MUST be inherently dangerous and unsafe- so they grounded it for some time.
The post- Accident investigation showed that, among other mistakes, Yeager flew a completely incorrect zoom-climb profile.
The NF-104 was developed specifically for ARPS and without it, the school had no airborne platform for future USAF pilot/astronauts to develop space vehicle techniques.
01-02-2020, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by klondike
I am not smart enough or knowledgeable enough or credible enough to come on here and formulate my own opinion on this accident- especially since I was never a test pilot and I was only 10 months old on the day of this accident.
That said, Frank Borman wrote his memoirs in a book called “Countdown.”
In that book he addressed this accident. He was very blunt and pulled no punches. I’m paraphrasing but, essentially, Borman’s take was that the flight was an unnecessary stunt(his word) that contributed nothing to research and/or development and was nothing more than an attempt to set another record. According to Borman, Yeager had not completed the full Aerospace Research Pilot School curriculum necessary to fly the NF-104 to its design envelope limits. In essence, his ego wrote a check that his body very nearly couldn’t cash. The feeling amongst the rank and file was that, because he was the C.O. Of ARPS, he could do whatever he wanted.
Borman’s final words on the subject were that Yeager’s actions destroyed a very valuable research tool.
To make matters worse, after the accident, top USAF brass figured (incorrectly, as it turned it) that if the airplane had nearly killed the “immortal Yeager”, it MUST be inherently dangerous and unsafe- so they grounded it for some time.
The post- Accident investigation showed that, among other mistakes, Yeager flew a completely incorrect zoom-climb profile.
The NF-104 was developed specifically for ARPS and without it, the school had no airborne platform for future USAF pilot/astronauts to develop space vehicle techniques.
That said, Frank Borman wrote his memoirs in a book called “Countdown.”
In that book he addressed this accident. He was very blunt and pulled no punches. I’m paraphrasing but, essentially, Borman’s take was that the flight was an unnecessary stunt(his word) that contributed nothing to research and/or development and was nothing more than an attempt to set another record. According to Borman, Yeager had not completed the full Aerospace Research Pilot School curriculum necessary to fly the NF-104 to its design envelope limits. In essence, his ego wrote a check that his body very nearly couldn’t cash. The feeling amongst the rank and file was that, because he was the C.O. Of ARPS, he could do whatever he wanted.
Borman’s final words on the subject were that Yeager’s actions destroyed a very valuable research tool.
To make matters worse, after the accident, top USAF brass figured (incorrectly, as it turned it) that if the airplane had nearly killed the “immortal Yeager”, it MUST be inherently dangerous and unsafe- so they grounded it for some time.
The post- Accident investigation showed that, among other mistakes, Yeager flew a completely incorrect zoom-climb profile.
The NF-104 was developed specifically for ARPS and without it, the school had no airborne platform for future USAF pilot/astronauts to develop space vehicle techniques.
Originally Posted by MaxQ
You do realize that you will be burned at the stake for violating this area of Political Correctness.
Yes Sir. I know. But like I said, what I wrote was what Borman went on record as stating. According to other readings on the subject, many other highly respected and well-educated professional test pilots of the era felt the same way about it.
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