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Unluckiest Generation

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Unluckiest Generation

Old 05-31-2020, 05:34 AM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by John Carr View Post
Break it down for me.

Of those that fall into the “millennial” bookend, how many are facing a THIRD furlough?

At my shop (me included), a guy/girl facing F3.0 aren’t millennials.
It isn’t just millennials. A lot of pilots work 40+ year careers. Anyone from any generation who has been flying for the last 20 years has felt the same hard times.

The main thing the article stresses is how the negative events disproportionately effect people who are early on in their careers.

Millennials, by definition, were born 1981 to mid 1990s. That means the oldest ones were just trying to start their careers in 2001. They were just getting somewhere in 2009. Some were finally just getting to their dream airline right about now.

So most haven’t even had the chance to be furloughed 3 times. Instead, they just were stuck with no job after college because no one was hiring. When they did start hiring they worked for poverty wages before getting furloughed. Then they finally got their lucky break and had the last 4-5 years of mass hiring which propelled them through the regionals and many have just finally made it to a major and will be unemployed again for 2 or 3 years.

The main takeaway being that the average millennial who started this journey immediately after high school will not be at a major, with enough seniority to be furlough proof, until they’re in their late 30s or early 40s.
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Old 05-31-2020, 07:49 AM
  #12  
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Isnt the lesson here obvious? Reading all the sad stories on this forum about furloughs and such should be like reading an NTSB report. Let’s adjust our future actions.

Aspiring airline pilots shouldn’t go right for that “Bacehlor in Aviation Science” or whatever. Get a STEM degree while you earn your primary ratings at a part 61 flight school. Then work a few years in an industry utilizing your STEM degree making a respectable salary and building a network. Live within your means, don’t buy stupid ****, save for retirement, and use the leftover money to earn the rest of your ratings. After you earn your CFI, instruct part-time to build time. Or if you can afford to, and you should by now, quit STEM career and full-time instruct. THEN make the switch to an airline career. Now you have a solid back-up plan when things **** the bed like they always seem to in this industry. Sure, you might be in your mid-late twenties by then, but its an intelligent course and well worth it to have a solid fall back.
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Old 05-31-2020, 07:55 AM
  #13  
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I’ll add - Im a firm believer if you have the mental chops to learn to fly a jet, then you can learn something else scienc-y. Skip the degree in liberal arts for God’s sake.

I’d argue you’ll be more appealing to a major with a solid STEM degree, AND you’ll bypass becoming a whiny 20 yr regional CA who can’t get hired at a major with no degree (or a worthless one).
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Old 05-31-2020, 08:24 AM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by DontLookDown View Post
It isn’t just millennials. A lot of pilots work 40+ year careers. Anyone from any generation who has been flying for the last 20 years has felt the same hard times.

The main thing the article stresses is how the negative events disproportionately effect people who are early on in their careers.

Millennials, by definition, were born 1981 to mid 1990s. That means the oldest ones were just trying to start their careers in 2001. They were just getting somewhere in 2009. Some were finally just getting to their dream airline right about now.

So most haven’t even had the chance to be furloughed 3 times. Instead, they just were stuck with no job after college because no one was hiring. When they did start hiring they worked for poverty wages before getting furloughed. Then they finally got their lucky break and had the last 4-5 years of mass hiring which propelled them through the regionals and many have just finally made it to a major and will be unemployed again for 2 or 3 years.

The main takeaway being that the average millennial who started this journey immediately after high school will not be at a major, with enough seniority to be furlough proof, until they’re in their late 30s or early 40s.
I agree with your points. Those born around 1980 seemed to have had it the worst in that regard. I know some who didn't clear six figures until upgrading at a ULCC in the last few years and those guys where in their late 30s. As far as myself, I finished flight school back in the 08/09 era and then worked in a restaurant for two years after until getting my first flying gig. The 90s babies who did the flight school > CFI > regional FO (incl. gigantic bonuses) track with no major gaps still kinda floors me to be honest, although good for them.

Even though I was never furloughed back then, one very important lesson I learned from those times was the value of seniority. I'm not knocking the legacies as they are excellent jobs, but they have ridiculously large size pilot groups and accruing any kind of seniority to be safe from furlough takes years if not decades. It is very much a gamble. Three years at a ULCC has put me halfway up the list and into the left seat, fairly safe from furlough at this point. I consider myself quite lucky.
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Old 05-31-2020, 10:06 AM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by DontLookDown View Post
Some are saying that millennials are the unluckiest generation in American History. Thinking about how many millennials are about to have their 3rd furlough I’m thinking they’re probably right.

www.marketwatch.com/amp/story/guid/58E619CE-A10F-11EA-8E16-6909CF58D747
This has to be worthy of the most entitled post in the history of APC.

Let's break it down for you in the clueless seats.

No one forced you to fly airplanes for a living. There are (er were) plenty of jobs up until very recently (I will give you the jury is still out on how bad this is going to be. But.......NO ONE is standing in a bread line. In fact most of us who lost their jobs (I am one of them) are getting EXTRA money from the government on top of normal unemployment. I would be VERY surprised if any of the recently furloughed are now homeless. Maybe someone who made poor choices like buying a brand new expensive car with his sign on bonus as a "gift" for "making it to the regionals".

Now let's look at a little contrast in history.

Someone born in early 1900. First there is a world war. That generation that survived the war then came home to a worldwide plague that killed somewhere between 17 to 50 "MILLION". Then its the roaring (19) 20s. Best economy in history. 10 years go by and we have Black Tuesday Oct 29th 1929. The stock market crash is so bad people are afraid to walk down certain streets for fear of having a suicidal body fall on them from above. Thus begins the worst depression in world history. Millions lose homes and land that has been in their family for generations. Food shortages lead to breadlines. PEOPLE LOST EVERYTHING. Heck you couldn't even grow food in certain parts of the US. Read up on the "dustbowl". Californians think they have a drought now, they should read up on what happened during the 30s. Entire states are bankrupt. People were putting kids in the mail to send them to family members to survive. Or just abandoning them to orphanages in the middle of the night. How would you like to be 12 years old working in a West Virginia coal mine?

Those that made it through the great depression then had to deal with a homicidal maniac who tried to take over the world leading us into a 2nd world war. 70 - 85 "million" lost their lives in WW2. Millions of Jews were killed just because of the family they were born into. More millions killed by the Soviets, their OWN PEOPLE. Countless "jobs" were lost during the 40s.

How about the many generations of countless africans who were forced into slavery in the south at the beginning of this country. Sometimes forced into slavery by their own tribes. How many of those can trace their generations back to before the 1800s?

How about the generation that fought a civil war over those same slaves?

And entitled millennials want to cry into their $1000 Iphone X, while driving a toyota prius with a fin glued on the back, because "it improves horsepower", claiming on fakebook how their generation has it worse than anyone before them. Don't see anyone dying because they use an android over a iphone. The fact is millennials have experienced some of the greatest opportunities in the history of the world. Have access to the greatest technology, the greatest knowledge at their fingertips, the greatest support and the most potential in the history of well history. A private company is building spaceships to put a colony on Mars in the next 5 years FFS.

Millennials are like 5 year olds who are being forced to eat their broccoli, it's like the worst thing in the world to them. You think flipping burgers at McDonalds, where you have access to company healthcare is worse than being a 12 year old kid working in a coal mine to feed his family because dad died from the black lung.

Hey millennials, Stop facetiming your mother from the couch, put down the Ipad and the starbucks triple foam grande latti (i'm embarrassed I even know what the F that is) and pick up a history book FFS. Stop crying into your overly sugary fancy coffee. And drink a tall glass of perspective.

Sincerely,
Not old enough to be a "boomer".
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Old 05-31-2020, 10:43 AM
  #16  
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^^To add to what you are saying, the life expectancy in the US dropped down into the 40s during the Spanish Flu pandemic. Plenty of other valid reasons for why older generations had it way worse but this one particularly sticks out.

https://ourworldindata.org/spanish-f...mic-in-history

However, if you want to compare recent generations then I think there are plenty of arguments for why the millennials have had it worse than the boomers and gen x, but there's really no point in doing that since all of us have had soft, easy lives comparatively speaking.
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Old 05-31-2020, 11:46 AM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by DontLookDown View Post
It isn’t just millennials. A lot of pilots work 40+ year careers. Anyone from any generation who has been flying for the last 20 years has felt the same hard times.
Ya don’t say....


Originally Posted by DontLookDown View Post
So most haven’t even had the chance to be furloughed 3 times.
Well alrighty then;

Originally Posted by DontLookDown View Post
Thinking about how many millennials are about to have their 3rd furlough I’m thinking they’re probably right.
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Old 05-31-2020, 11:51 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by SSlow View Post
^^To add to what you are saying, the life expectancy in the US dropped down into the 40s during the Spanish Flu pandemic. Plenty of other valid reasons for why older generations had it way worse but this one particularly sticks out.

https://ourworldindata.org/spanish-f...mic-in-history

However, if you want to compare recent generations then I think there are plenty of arguments for why the millennials have had it worse than the boomers and gen x, but there's really no point in doing that since all of us have had soft, easy lives comparatively speaking.
Agreed. I think anyone born (in the US) since the 50s has no idea what real difficulties are. Even our homeless are better off than many third world countries. Friend of mine came here illegally (many years ago) from Mexico. He grew up in a actual "mud hut". Did not eat every day. Meanwhile I walked past a homeless guy recently living in a coleman tent with a propane heater while surfing the internets on a dell laptop computer using (I am assuming) cell phone hotspot (or leaching off a local free wifi).

We live in the richest country in the world. Our poor and homeless have it better than most of the third world. Boo Hoo you lost your nearly 100k a year in your early 20s. Welcome to reality.
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Old 05-31-2020, 11:59 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by SSlow View Post
I agree with your points. Those born around 1980 seemed to have had it the worst in that regard. I know some who didn't clear six figures until upgrading at a ULCC in the last few years and those guys where in their late 30s. As far as myself, I finished flight school back in the 08/09 era and then worked in a restaurant for two years after until getting my first flying gig. The 90s babies who did the flight school > CFI > regional FO (incl. gigantic bonuses) track with no major gaps still kinda floors me to be honest, although good for them.

Even though I was never furloughed back then, one very important lesson I learned from those times was the value of seniority. I'm not knocking the legacies as they are excellent jobs, but they have ridiculously large size pilot groups and accruing any kind of seniority to be safe from furlough takes years if not decades. It is very much a gamble. Three years at a ULCC has put me halfway up the list and into the left seat, fairly safe from furlough at this point. I consider myself quite lucky.
Sorry to thread jack, but you bring up an important point.

Maybe this might be a good time to revisit the idea of "Seniority". Personally I don't think it's a good system. I can get behind a industry wide "seniority" so that the 777 captain doesn't have to start his/her entire career over at a new company. I think pay scales based on number of hours in a log book makes a heck of a lot more sense than what we have now. And makes companies work a lot harder to attract and retain talent. Much better for pilots. The way we have it now pilots can't jump ship for a better company that treats its employees better since they lose their "seniority" thus "seniority" works better for airline management than pilots.
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Old 05-31-2020, 12:10 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by Av8tr1 View Post
blablabla.
Here, read the actual article with the sources and studies provided. Educate yourself. Your whole rant sounds just like that antivax mom who 'did her research' or the typical guy bringing up some data points out of thousands of inputs. Read the article.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...article_inline
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