Unluckiest Generation
08-03-2020, 07:35 AM
#421
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Joined APC: Sep 2013
Position: On the hotel shuttle
Posts: 5,809
Originally Posted by NE_Pilot
I am using the term society in response to your usage of it. Civilization may be more appropriate?
You can’t have a division of labor, and therefore agricultural society, without some recognition of property rights. Division of labor requires trade, and trade requires a recognition of property rights. Groups that recognized this survived and thrived, while groups that did not died off.
Lastly, from a prior statement by you:
Did hunter-gatherers recognize rights or not? These two statements appear to contradict each other.
You can’t have a division of labor, and therefore agricultural society, without some recognition of property rights. Division of labor requires trade, and trade requires a recognition of property rights. Groups that recognized this survived and thrived, while groups that did not died off.
Lastly, from a prior statement by you:
Did hunter-gatherers recognize rights or not? These two statements appear to contradict each other.
08-03-2020, 07:52 AM
#422
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 762
Originally Posted by METO Guido
Why do I get the feeling you're the kind of guy who rigs his own ballyhoo? 
^^^^ Key plot line of this thread. I'll agree it goes way back. So far back as, bite marks on this apple here don't look like birds done it. Any ideas you two? Universal right anything and everything but that one thing. Choices can be a real pi$$er.
Dominion over behavior is what sets us apart from beast and creates a basis for species survival. The U.S. Constitution is one country's framework for getting that done, on record, under terms of impartiality. Also namesake of the world's oldest commissioned frigate still afloat. Blasting deeper fault lines in the common ground that's served us so well only makes the job of confronting this crisis and the ones in trail, harder. Keep Old Ironsides shipshape you wonky AI master & commanders of tomorrow. She ain't lost yet.
^^^^ Key plot line of this thread. I'll agree it goes way back. So far back as, bite marks on this apple here don't look like birds done it. Any ideas you two? Universal right anything and everything but that one thing. Choices can be a real pi$$er.
Dominion over behavior is what sets us apart from beast and creates a basis for species survival. The U.S. Constitution is one country's framework for getting that done, on record, under terms of impartiality. Also namesake of the world's oldest commissioned frigate still afloat. Blasting deeper fault lines in the common ground that's served us so well only makes the job of confronting this crisis and the ones in trail, harder. Keep Old Ironsides shipshape you wonky AI master & commanders of tomorrow. She ain't lost yet.
In some sense property rights can be seen as an evolutionary trait. It emerges through people interacting with each other, those who succeeded recognized property rights. Maybe rights is not a great term, maybe something like natural law is better? Either way, property rights were not something decided from a human authority, but rather a natural emergence from human interaction.
If you look at the Bill of Rights, they all essentially deal with property rights. However, many “rights” today are not really rights and are simply constructs of “society”, and many actually work to deny property rights.
08-03-2020, 08:01 AM
#423
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 762
Originally Posted by GogglesPisano
Sorry for the confusion. They had property rights within the tribe. It helped hold the tribe together. Anything outside the tribe was fair game. If someone was taken captive by another tribe or their possessions were stolen they didn't have an idea of an over-arching "human right" not to be captured. They had no recourse in that event anyway.
It does not need to be an explicit recognition of rights” I may recognize that my group is equal or at a disadvantage to the other group and decide that trade is better for our group’s safety, it can be an implicit recognition. Just like I do not need an explicit understanding of kinetic and potential energy to build and use a bow and arrow.
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