Paranoid Pilots?
 

Do any of you find yourself flying with fellow pilots (CA or FO) who are overly paranoid and think the company/world is out to get them?

Flew with a CA recently who was probably the best pilot I have ever flown with. Was very smooth and flew the plane by the book. Other than his flying and ADM, he was extremely paranoid about everything. Some examples were:

1. Afraid to speak to the FAs. Would only talk when a flight related issue came up. Otherwise, he was convinced they would take something he said the wrong way and report it.

2. Afraid of Pax. Was convinced they had video cameras out and ready to catch any mistake we made and put it on social media. Didn't like making PAs and avoided eye contact in gate area.

3. Afraid of Gate Agents. Was convinced they were writing notes trying to pin any delay on him. Had an extensive notebook to record every move they made and what Zulu time.

4. Afraid of dispatch. If he had to call them, he would never use his name, only the flight number and tail. Not sure why.

Again, he was a fine aviator and I picked up some good techniques from him. I could go on with examples of the paranoia. Just curious if others have had any similar trips. Are pilots just programed to think this way?

I think theres a story behind each of these people. They got burned in the past in some way. Badly. I've flown with the type before and found them very skilled and knowledeable. So long as everything is being done as it should I wouldn't worry about it.

Not to that extent, but have had pilots that watched closely what they say and do as to not cause any reason to get a "call".

In my experience, some are just paranoid people, some have made a mistake and over-reacted when they got punished for it (IE said something edgy to/about an FA and got punished for it, now instead of just interacting appropriately they refuse to interact at all), and some got unfairly burned along the way and just choose to clam up. As long as they’re able to do their job without it causing communication/safety issues it’s not really anything to worry about.

It’s not paranoia if they’re really out to get you.

I like that!

Can’t blame some of them. There are some companies in other parts of the world that thrive on turning other employees in for discipline. It’s just the culture.

Once we had to divert after bad weather and the ramp shut down and I was stuck for hours with 50 angry pax. I felt it best to address them from the cabin and of course there are 2 or 3 cell phones pointed at my face. Ugh. I’m not the best public speaker either.


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Some people make the easiest job on earth so hard, I have never understood why?

Flew with a guy who on overnights slammed clicked and ordered room service because he heard of someone who was shot at a hotel this one time.
seriously cool guy and would have liked to have a beer with him but he simply wouldnt leave his room and when I told him I went out running the next day he almost pooped himself that I would do that.

Yeah I don't do that anymore.

I've flown with a couple guys who got badly burned in the recent past for acting like a CA and trying to solve problems. That doesn't always fly anymore.

My takeaway from other people's hard lessons: Call ops and let the station handle it and stay in the cockpit... even if you handle it perfectly, the video will be edited to be "newsworthy" before they run it on CNN. There's no way you're coming out ahead because you doing good is not newsworthy in any way. I would even think twice about intervening in a fight. Only exception is if you personally foil an actual terrorist attack, then you can write a book and retire.

Airborne, give 'em a warning and then divert and let the cops deal with it. If they trigger a (legit) divert, they're going to lose in court.

I also know people who won't go out with FA's on an overnight. Meh, gotta use common sense on that. If the party's getting heavy, leave before you get into the realm of "should have known" that somebody was going to be unfit in the morning. If somebody needs help to their room, you stayed to long... have the hotel staff take them up.

It’s not paranoia, it’s hyper-situationally aware.

Yeah, other than #4, I probably think along those lines. You are expressing your bias by using the word "afraid." I look at is at "wary." Stay in the cockpit. Don't fraternize with FAs. When the door is open, Gate Agents own the airplane.

Conversely, If the Gate Agent needs help, not my problem. If Inflight doesn't like a passenger, I'll call the Agent and they can have them removed. No conversation there at all. I won't override a FA's opinion of a passenger. If we divert because a passenger does become a problem, my boss will ask why I wasn't concerned when the FA brought up the problem back at the gate. If the FA had a bad day and was being unreasonable, then their department can address it. No where in my books does it say evaluate the decision making ability of the Flight Attendants and decide whether or not to go along with them.

I've seen first hand pilots who are predators. I've seen first hand the FA Facebook page that wanted to crucify a flight crew that were falsely accused by a fired FA. So... yeah. No thanks.

I have a really good job that I've spent most of my life working towards. Damn right I watch out for it.

It isn't high school. It isn't a popularity contest.

Total paranoia. Obviously, what he really needs to be worried about is his F/Os writing up embarrassing descriptions of his behavior online for the entire world to see and laugh at!!! ;-)

first two make sense, second two probably to a lesser extent. One “your word against theirs” with an FA (be it what you said while on duty or what you did on an overnight. Deserved or not) or one bad edited clip of you talking with a pax might be enough to derail your career. Generally it is probably good practice to avoid being alone with co workers in a non public place (flight deck exempt) I’d address pax if it was a issue like weather or MX but if a conflict came up at the gate, that was not my domain, call CO. If In flight I’m not leaving the flight deck.

TL;DR you can do 1,000 things right in your career but it only takes 1 thing to screw it up. Pilots tend to be risk averse and some take that to all facets of their life.

Mainly there’s an element of truth to each if these points. But don’t live in fear.

Number 4 isn’t fear. It’s efficiency. Dispatch could care less who I am. They need the a/c and flight number.

lol
(need more letters)

The real question is-

Did he fly the go home leg in selected speed? Because we all know the company has a cost index tracking program and they will see if you put 99...

No, but he did come barreling down the stairway in the hotel one morning claiming that the staff put a tracking device in his dress shoes. He showed me the bottom of his shoe and it turned out to be a small stone that got wedged in there.

In my experience the paranoid pilots are the ones who have the majority of incidents or accidents. It boils down to insecurities they have. On the surface they appear to be cautious and " by the book ", but ultimately they are afraid of screwing up, something we all do from time to time. Time to get some character and man up.

I’m not paranoid but I put tape over the camera and mic of my company iPad. I know for a fact they’ve been monitoring me.

They’re monitoring you too!

I always thought they would be more interested in what I was looking at, not how I looked/sounded while doing it....

Lawyers have created this. I simply can't blame anyone for refusing to even push wheel chairs anymore. I heard of a pilot land in hot water because he was pushing a wheel chair and the person was wobbly and fell... somehow the pilot got blamed, and it was pointed out that pushing wheel chairs is not in the pilot's job description so you're assuming all responsibility for what happens.

There is a reason why some doctors are refusing to treat attorneys and their families. Can't say that I blame them. It's sad.

does he also wear a bullet proof vest everywhere? Sounds like someone I know

I have flown with a couple people like you mention, but more I’m surprised about how many believe in crazy political conspiracy theories. For a well educated group it’s entertaining to hear some of the stuff these guys come up with. Had one guy tell me he never pays federal income tax from his rental properties because he never agreed to do so in the first place and it’s unconstitutional for the government to make him.

Yes, I've seen that too... people who had a history of carpet dances for operational issues tended to be uptight in the cockpit. PTSD or maybe they were just on double-secret probation.

But that's a different animal than people who are afraid of getting in trouble for HR stuff.

My theory on that is while most pilots are smart and educated, many of them don't have the broad context of experience with how organizations and society work because they've always operated professionally either alone or with one other pilot. They have less organizational context than a ramper, who at least interacts with boss on a regular basis. Also depends on what they do in their spare time and who they do it with.

Being smart, they tend to go looking for info and context, and find it in the blogosphere... :eek:

People who've had white-collar/professional jobs, including mil, have an innate understanding of how organizations (including governments) work and are less prone to off the wall ideas. When considering the motives and actions of an organization, never attribute to malice what can be explained by lethargy, incompetence, or greed in that order.

Company probably not.
1. Probably illegal (not just compay-gets-a-fine, but prison-time illegal).
2. They couldn't use any info acquired without your consent against you anyway.

That said you cannot *absolutely* rule at that some manager somewhere might be tempted to access audio just for some insight into what someone might be thinking. If I was running a high-level union meeting, I'd ban all company devices from the room... just to remove the temptation.


Random hackers are a more plausible threat. I do keep my cameras covered when I'm not using them. Probably worried more about unauthorized images of my kids than images of me.

Hacking an iGadget or otherwise is nearly impossible and only more possible (though still quite tough) if it has been jail broken by yourself. I can virtually guarantee you no mid-level manager or otherwise at an airline has the ability to get into your company issued gadget and spy on you.

Some devices are more secure than others. But I'm aware of one scheme on a company-owned ipad where the device simply recorded video data and saved it. This was then uploaded during a periodic data-synch process which was a legit component of the business tools installed on the device (this was not an airline).

Have a link? In any case, one incident that appears incidental doesn't account for the need to be overly paranoid. By all means, protections and language should be in place to prevent accidental or purposeful privacy breaches but I don't think that supports the paranoia some exhibit.

They wouldn't have to hack it, if the company owns the device they have the right to put whatever software they want onto said device. That's why many (I would suspect all) unionized airlines address this in the contract.

They are certainly out there...

"Utah pilot who fled tax charges is arrested in N.C."

https://www.standard.net/police-fire...c7d97230c.html

My brother is a software engineer (I have the background too, haven't used it in decades, but we talk about it). It was a case he told me about. He does enterprise security and they look hard at all the client devices and apps since those are usually the gateway for malicious actors.

Apple is tighter than MS, but it's by no means airtight.

Sure, however my point is it doesn't justify the paranoia that some exhibit. There isn't a demonstrated need to cover your camera or remove company devices from meetings. The evidence doesn't support it.

Back to original post, there also isn't reason to live your life in fear. Don't be an arse and you'll get through this career (and life) just fine. Feel bad for those that hinder their own life experiences and relationships on the off chance something they do will get them in trouble.

Covering the camera is cheap insurance.

We went to extreme lengths with mil security (I was TS+), don't need to go that far obviously with personal privacy and confidential business (union) info but you'd remiss to totally disregard the risks. I have a good sense as to the scope of what's possible, and it's very nearly anything and everything. Even the best world-class encryption can be and often is compromised by flaws, backdoors, loopholes in the HW or various software. Or plain operator error/negligence.

My brother also related some cases where managers for large companies had actually hired outside "investigators" (hackers) to enable their digital snooping, to further their own personal interests within the organization. These were companies which would not remotely conduct or condone illegal hacking/surveillence, but they had some rogue people.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...eces-tape.html

I’ve flown with an FO who wouldn’t even greet an FA as “they’re dangerous”.
Then we have the Union political hacks,
We also have the guy whose sole mission in life is to convince any new hires that the company is out to get them through Scheduling shenanigans.

But I don’t cover mine, so they’ll just monitor you through mine. [emoji23]

A wise man he is.

I’m inclined to put the tape over my mouth as well when not in the cockpit. Can never be too cautious with this career.

Judging by the posts on these boards I would say the paranoid pilots hang out on APC. The posts on here usually stoke the fires of paranoia.