Where My Doomers At?
#31
At face value it feels like Russia completely failed to understand modern logistics, and specifically how western intel (drones, elint, sat, and humint) coupled with accurate stand off weapons, could leave their supply lines in shambles. Almost like they were still stuck in 1980s style warfare. Very interesting
#32
1. He needs enough stuff staged in RU to support his intentions.
2. He needs to be able to transport that from friendly territory, through potentially contested territory, to the front lines.
3. He needs to protect it enroute.
I think the log failure was more due to wholesale corruption and incompetence, which Putin was not aware of because it went all the way to his top boys, who naturally had to hide that. Maybe multiple layers of his mil bureaucracy didn't have good SA on the layers below them, so the problem compounded badly by the time it got to the tactical forces.
I also think the largest failure was actually that of poor joint/combined warfighting... unlike logistics that HAS changed dramatically since WW2. If he had done that right he might have rolled up all of UR in a week (like the US did in Iraq once or twice). But that's graduate-level skills, and again corruption obviously prevented RU forces from training they way they *should* have. The UR forces have been trained on that by the west since 2014, and they obviously sat up straight, paid attention, and took it seriously.
I didn't think he'd invade UR because I didn't think he and his boys could be that stupid or disconnected from reality. I was wrong, they were.
#33
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Hi Hub,
I don't have the time to make a reply with much reflection or length.
With those limits in mind:
1. I agree with the view that we need to support countries that are defending themselves from outright military invasion. The support need not involve American presence.
2. Putin's worldview is a Slavic updated form of Anschluss.
3. Putin's other strategic views involve the West and Liberal Democracy as mortal enemies to Russia's rightful place in the sun. They are enemy because they exist, not because of what they do.
4. Ukraine would fight with or without our support.
5. Long term goals of Putin are to weaken/destroy NATO, The European Union, and the USA/European Transatlantic ties. Much of Russian active measures are targeted at these goals. They include recruitment and use of agents of influence. Some/One of these assets have achieved positions where they/he actually have the power of direction. Far exceeding mere influence.
Ok...running late..gotta go.
I don't have the time to make a reply with much reflection or length.
With those limits in mind:
1. I agree with the view that we need to support countries that are defending themselves from outright military invasion. The support need not involve American presence.
2. Putin's worldview is a Slavic updated form of Anschluss.
3. Putin's other strategic views involve the West and Liberal Democracy as mortal enemies to Russia's rightful place in the sun. They are enemy because they exist, not because of what they do.
4. Ukraine would fight with or without our support.
5. Long term goals of Putin are to weaken/destroy NATO, The European Union, and the USA/European Transatlantic ties. Much of Russian active measures are targeted at these goals. They include recruitment and use of agents of influence. Some/One of these assets have achieved positions where they/he actually have the power of direction. Far exceeding mere influence.
Ok...running late..gotta go.
#34
It's the age old problem of taking land and "winning over the population". The first is easy if you throw enough resources at it. I have no doubt Russia could flatten the country in a matter of hours if they wanted to. But they know that's a line they cannot cross without the rest of the world getting involved and a real WWIII situation breaking out. So they are trying to conduct a limited war and hoping they can just outlast the Ukrainians and they will "let go" of their occupied territories. They misjudged the resistance and will of both the Ukraine and the rest of the world on this matter, so there's not a great option to save face. Military analysis I've seen say Ukraine is in a better position with recruiting personnel to fight in the short term, more people available, so they need to use the momentum and take as much territory as possible. Russia on the other hand has a much longer spool up time to get conscripts trained and fielded, but in all likelihood this is what they do, half-assing the effort until either the Ukrainians just give up or they run out of their own "public" support.
#35
But I agree, the western backlash can not be encouraging to the CCP.
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,090
China has no right to Taiwan. Taiwan however has a legitimate right to China. The ROC is still the legitimate Chinese government, the PRC is still the communist rebel government.
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,344
While I agree with your sentiment, the United States stopped officially recognizing the ROC as the government of China and does officially recognize the PRC and its CCP leadership. Recognizing the Beijing government started with and was a big result of Nixon's 1972 visit to China. We officially stopped recognizing the ROC as China in 1979.
Last edited by Elevation; 09-20-2022 at 07:45 AM.
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2022
Posts: 1,267
China has every right to Taiwan much like how Ukraine has always been part of Russia it has always been a part of china.
Ah yes "Russian disinformation" at the same time you spam nato/us state department propaganda. It always is comical to me how Americans cry about illegal invasions when every war the us has been involved in since WW2 has been an illegal invasion. Russia has more of a right to invade Ukraine than the US had in Afghanistan and Iraq. Those in glass houses.
Ah yes "Russian disinformation" at the same time you spam nato/us state department propaganda. It always is comical to me how Americans cry about illegal invasions when every war the us has been involved in since WW2 has been an illegal invasion. Russia has more of a right to invade Ukraine than the US had in Afghanistan and Iraq. Those in glass houses.
#40
While I agree with your sentiment, the United States stopped officially recognizing the ROC as the government of China and does officially recognize the PRC and its CCP leadership. Recognizing the Beijing government started with and was a big result of Nixon's 1972 visit to China. We officially stopped recognizing the ROC as China in 1979.
The Taiwan situation is very much in the eye of the beholder. The way the USG looks at it is this...
Taiwan is a territorial part of China. We would oppose an attempt by say Spain to invade and annex the island. We would also not support an attempt by the ROC to "merge" with another nation so as to secure their independence from Beijing. Say if they tried to become a prefect of Japan or ROK. Also we would not entertain a request for Taiwan to join the US as the 51st state... although if the PRC started a big war, who knows what might happen after the dust settles. Those are just hypothetical examples, no basis in reality.
We also do not recognize any inherent right of the CCP to rule Taiwan, although we do recognize the CCP as the mainland sovereign.
Our attitude is that the internal relation between Taiwan and the mainland (aka "China" and "East China" lol) needs to be settled peacefully and by mutual agreement between the two parties. We would certainly let ROC join the PRC if they legitimately chose to do so (they won't, the ROC leaders and upper crust of society are too afraid of the gulag).