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Increased environmental activism

Old 11-19-2022, 07:13 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by SonicFlyer View Post
It's pretty obvious if you simply pay attention and think critically. And I don't listen to "alt-right talking heads" or hardly even watch TV or listen to talk radio, etc.
This is the voting machine argument. "There's so much evidence!" "Show me one" "No there is just too much to show". It's clearly not obvious to me, perhaps you could nudge my attention to the right direction?

Do you even know what socialism is? None of that argument makes any sense.
Who is wanting socialism, and why? And how does fighting climate change cause "socialism"?
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Old 11-19-2022, 09:08 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by dera View Post
Who is wanting socialism, and why? And how does fighting climate change cause "socialism"?

Ever heard of this guy? https://berniesanders.com/get-involved/
Understand he has quite a large following among the downtrodden.

Oh by the way, do as he says and not as he do https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...naires-226982/

Fighting climate change doesn't cause socialism, but every socialist want to fight climate change. Hmmmmm.....food for thought.
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Old 11-19-2022, 10:20 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Chillpill View Post
Ever heard of this guy? https://berniesanders.com/get-involved/
Understand he has quite a large following among the downtrodden.

Oh by the way, do as he says and not as he do https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...naires-226982/

Fighting climate change doesn't cause socialism, but every socialist want to fight climate change. Hmmmmm.....food for thought.

You, as many others, confuse left leaning ideas or social democracy with socialism. Bernie's own definition of "democratic socialist" is not socialism.

I can't think of a single active politician who is an actual socialist, apart from some fringe lunatics. But in the US it's customary to throw the "socialist" title on anyone who leans more to the left, without having a clue what it means.
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Old 11-20-2022, 07:00 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by dera View Post
You, as many others, confuse left leaning ideas or social democracy with socialism. Bernie's own definition of "democratic socialist" is not socialism.

I can't think of a single active politician who is an actual socialist, apart from some fringe lunatics. But in the USA it's customary to throw the "socialist" title on anyone who leans more to the left, without having a clue what it means.
It seems to me that many confuse social programs with socialism. Social programs do not equate to socialism. It is, however, an easy line for anyone opposed to social program x, y,or z to toss out that it is "socialism!" or "Communism" with all the alarm one can muster. Most political leaders accused of socialism are advocates of this or that public service or program. As you say, calling them socialists is absurd.

Even Hayek in his book "Road to Serfdom" advocated for robust social programs. His main argument in the book was against a centrally planned economy.
Every successful functioning society that comes to my mind is a mixture of free market capitalism, regulated capitalism, and public funded collective projects/programs.

We have found that military defense, policing, fire fighting, and education of the young, when done collectively, works better than having it done by private entities. These are just a few examples of the collective embedded in a non-socialist society.

We have found that regulation of utilities works better than an open free market brawl. (the electric grid is possibly the most complex "machine" devised by Man. We have in just over a century built a civilization that can't function without it. For it to work it requires huge levels of coordination/cooperation between entities while also having an umpire that balances the needs of society, fairness to the users, and requirements of the producers. For now we have this regulated private enterprise system, for just one example)

Some things society doesn't absolutely need to function, so we let the free market run its course. Make and market Cabbage Patch Dolls to your hearts content. We will make sure you don't put a lethal poison on its clothes or pour arsenic into the river in the manufacturing process, but otherwise the venture is left to the market.

As you said, there are no socialists in the halls of power. There ARE people who see the limitations and failures of unrestricted free market capitalism and attempt to find ways to mitigate the flaws inherent in a market economy. That just makes them practical, reality oriented people. Not some sort of neo-Marxist or Leninist.

I will leave with the only note I jotted down from the book "The Great Transformation" by Karl Polanyi.
"Fascism, like socialism, was rooted in a market society that refused to function."
It was a fair observation, and can be today construed as a warning.
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Old 11-20-2022, 09:39 AM
  #45  
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Yes, it is not socialism, it is leftist authoritarianism.
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Old 11-20-2022, 03:04 PM
  #46  
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I have far leftists argue to me that since I like fire and police, I am a socialist, too. No amount of clarification or information will sway them.

They are bound and determined to say any government function I think is beneficial means, automatically I am a socialist. If I say I do not support Socialism means I support absolutely zero government.
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Old 11-20-2022, 04:57 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Wingedbeast View Post
You argue with one you have argued with all of them. They all read off the same script.
Often what I hear from those on the far left is not based on logic. Not based on facts. Mostly talking points, emotions, trying to shut me down.

I can have a good, robust conversation, liberal vs. conservative. But not leftists.
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Old 11-20-2022, 05:26 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Wingedbeast View Post
"Carbon Taxes"
Taxes are socialist? Or their intent is to transfer assets to centralized control?
Again, do your homework and try to understand what socialism is.
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Old 11-20-2022, 07:50 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by MaxQ View Post

Even Hayek in his book "Road to Serfdom" advocated for robust social programs.
Ludwig Von Mises / Murray Rothbard > Fredrick A Hayek
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Old 11-20-2022, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by dera View Post
Taxes are socialist?
Taxation is theft. And taxation is how socialists want to control others.
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