4dalulz

There's a wide gulf between "Defense Standardization Program Specifications and Standards", and "will it run?". Considering Ukraine's predicament, any relatively working piece of Western equipment is a benefit.

On this topic though, haven't seen any recent "HIMARS-oclock" releases... They still around or did the Russians manage to pick them off?

Excargodog

$hit happens in war. You will have guys risking (and losing) their lives to deliver badly needed ammo, only to find that they’ve delivered 105mm tank ammo to a unit needing 120mm ammo and vice versa. The more ‘sort of’ similar weapons you field (like Leopard 1s and Leopard 2s) the more of such $hit will happen.

And if an Abrams were refueled with diesel - well, it wouldn’t be the first time…

rickair7777

That may be necessary to let Putin back out gracefully. But a split UR will involve NATO membership for the left side... that's the vibe I'm getting from establishment people. If Vlad gives the whole crimea back (minus maybe the naval base), there might be a NATO-free clause in the deal.

Also UR gov probably won't settle for a split nation without a NATO card, regardless of what we think.

Hubcapped

What is your point? It’s going to be tough? Should we not give it to them? What is your point with waxing on about logistics all day?

Yes we know it’s a sh1tshow. They need the equipment so all this talk is pointless. Unless you are saying we should let Ukraine be absorbed by Russia.

Is that what you want cargo? You want the US to let Ukraine die? Everyone already knows it’s going to be logistical nightmare comrade obvious


Oh and please never PM me again. It’s weak

Excargodog

I’m talking FACTS. You are talking rah-rah motivation. What is YOUR point? That FACTS don’t matter in war and that the battle will always go to those fighting for truth, justice, and the American Way? Do you truly think it went that way in Korea? Or in Vietnam? Or Afghanistan? Or is going that way now in Syria?

Logistics DO matter and while rah-rah motivation has a place in war, it seldom - in my experience - offsets a safe haven next door that nobody is going to let you attack.

You don’t want me to PM you because that is “weak.” What’s weak is asking questions when you don’t really want to hear the answer and ad hominem attacks on someone for stating relevant facts. If you don’t want to read what I post - or accept PMs from me - just block me. It’s easy enough to do.

What is ‘weak’ is whining about someone posting pertinent facts or denigrating their motives for doing so. What is weak is calling people ‘comrade’ and ‘Vlad.’

Currently you and I appear to be part of the 7% of the US population who have actually served in the military (and among the one in five veterans that actually saw active combat) and know it’s a $hitshow. If you do indeed know better, why would you object to your fellow citizens being informed of that?

Hubcapped

What……is…….your……..point…….?

Excargodog

What is YOURS?

Ukraine good, Vlad bad? On that we can agree.

Are you pressing for US boots on the ground and the risk of escalation to get back Crimea? I think you are in the minority there.

But what does it matter what my motivation is? Or yours? It doesn’t change the FACTS.

rickair7777

I think we've already "won", at least as far as NATO, the west, and the liberal democratic world order is concerned. Vlad won't be doing this chit again any time soon, and other potential like-minded imperialists have been discouraged, if not deterred. At this point it's just about closing it out on the most favorable terms we/UR can get.

Given Vlad's political position (and nukes) he'll need some sort of face-saving off ramp. The hard part might actually be getting UR to go along with that. If Vlad's not ready to talk now, he will be in a couple months IMO.

UR can make use of just about any western hardware IMO, regardless of logs or graduate-level proficiency because the RU forces kind of suck... you don't need Brady and the Pats to take down a a HS JV team with a 2-8 record.

Hubcapped

I honestly don’t even know what your point is.

My point has always been just to discuss the war. Specifically talking about the tactics and battles as they progress.

I have already stated my view on why Russia cannot be allowed to annex previous eastern bloc territories. It’s not ra ra as you stated, but a very specific geopolitical calculation that the US must pursue for future stability. For the above reasons (scroll back through the thread to get the specifics) if the Ukrainians want to fight, then give them the gear. Questions?

What is your stance? We clearly know you want to harp on logistics for months (why I literally have no idea), but stop being coy.

Since I’ve answered your question, answer mine.

Should the US be involved in Ukraine?
Very direct question, requiring a simple answer. What say you?

Excargodog

Involved? Sure. We obviously ARE involved. To what degree? And to what end? THAT is the question.

So now that I’ve answered your question, please answer mine:

I mean if “ Russia cannot be allowed to annex previous eastern bloc territories.” how far do you want to go with that absolute? Do whatever it takes to restore the entire internationally recognized territorial integrity of the Ukraine?