UAL is hiring, and I don't even want to apply..
07-16-2007, 11:54 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: RC-3 Seabee. Skipper of the A21 cutter.
Posts: 897
Originally Posted by Deez340
Uhhhh........? no. not analogous in any way.
Originally Posted by Rightseat Ballast
It is sad that those who run our airlines truly have no passion for aviation. No wonder they take no pride in clean airplanes, professional staff, and return customers. Where are the eccentric millionaires of yesterday who understand that flying is more than just quick way to get from point A to point B?
Last edited by blastboy; 07-16-2007 at 12:01 PM.
07-16-2007, 02:33 PM
#13
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: 737 Capt
Posts: 58
Originally Posted by Rottweiler
I have a very good friend who chose to stay at a regional and resigned his UAL seniority number after the second recall offer . . . For him to give up his seniority at his dream job, things must be REAL bad at UAL.
The thing that amazes me about this forum (and I'm not necessarily speaking to you specifically, Rott) is the shortsightedness of many who post here and the inability to recognize the cyclical nature of this industry. To say that UAL is the Mesa of the majors is absurd. To think that the UAL pilot group will stand for a crappy contract forever is to grossly misjudge the collective will of the pilots.
I would agree that the UAL pilots took a huge hit in bankruptcy - but it will NOT be like that forever. It may take til 2009 to get back much of what was lost, but hopefully it will happen sooner. To say that morale is in the toilet, as I have read many times here from people who are not UAL pilots, is also a bit of a misnomer. It would be more accurate to say that the pilots are angry at managements actions and failings to act. They want change and recognize that the wrong people are running this company. But most guys don't come to work *****ing and moaning and crying about the state of affairs for 12 hours straight. Instead,they know things need to change and are willing to do what it takes, but are not going to dwell on it throughout the workday. I genuinely enjoy flying with 99% of the people here.
Furthermore, to say that the pay/work rules are the worst in the industry is also incorrect. If you look at the pay calculator available here, and factor in the 15% B-fund (401k) company contribution which most airlines don't have, that puts UAL pilots somewhere in the middle. That being said, I am not satisfied with that. We once had an industry-leading contract, and that is where I want to be again. My point being that, if you're looking to apply at UAL, the compensation is better than most flying jobs and certainly better than any regional that I'm aware of - and it IS going to get better.
If you're thinking of applying to UAL, I would offer a few items for consideration. On the positive side, the UAL pilots contract IS going to improve. This pilot group is dedicated to that. UAL offers all types of flying from 737s to widebodys around the world. The people here, senior mgmt excluded, are good people and great to work with. On the negative side, if a merger comes down the pike or age 65 happens, you may be stuck on the bottom of the list for awhile if you just got hired. But that's the risk you run at any airline.
There are no guarantees. As the saying goes in this industry, you never know if you made the right career decisions until the day you retire. I would just hate to see good pilots discouraged from applying at UAL. While the current management team leaves a lot (okay, everything) to be desired, this is still a worthwhile company.
07-16-2007, 04:35 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: RC-3 Seabee. Skipper of the A21 cutter.
Posts: 897
Originally Posted by cactusdog16
An interesting choice, but one that I would venture to guess that most regional pilots would be hesitant to make. Everyone's personal circumstances are different though.
The thing that amazes me about this forum (and I'm not necessarily speaking to you specifically, Rott) is the shortsightedness of many who post here and the inability to recognize the cyclical nature of this industry. To say that UAL is the Mesa of the majors is absurd. To think that the UAL pilot group will stand for a crappy contract forever is to grossly misjudge the collective will of the pilots.
I would agree that the UAL pilots took a huge hit in bankruptcy - but it will NOT be like that forever. It may take til 2009 to get back much of what was lost, but hopefully it will happen sooner. To say that morale is in the toilet, as I have read many times here from people who are not UAL pilots, is also a bit of a misnomer. It would be more accurate to say that the pilots are angry at managements actions and failings to act. They want change and recognize that the wrong people are running this company. But most guys don't come to work *****ing and moaning and crying about the state of affairs for 12 hours straight. Instead,they know things need to change and are willing to do what it takes, but are not going to dwell on it throughout the workday. I genuinely enjoy flying with 99% of the people here.
Furthermore, to say that the pay/work rules are the worst in the industry is also incorrect. If you look at the pay calculator available here, and factor in the 15% B-fund (401k) company contribution which most airlines don't have, that puts UAL pilots somewhere in the middle. That being said, I am not satisfied with that. We once had an industry-leading contract, and that is where I want to be again. My point being that, if you're looking to apply at UAL, the compensation is better than most flying jobs and certainly better than any regional that I'm aware of - and it IS going to get better.
If you're thinking of applying to UAL, I would offer a few items for consideration. On the positive side, the UAL pilots contract IS going to improve. This pilot group is dedicated to that. UAL offers all types of flying from 737s to widebodys around the world. The people here, senior mgmt excluded, are good people and great to work with. On the negative side, if a merger comes down the pike or age 65 happens, you may be stuck on the bottom of the list for awhile if you just got hired. But that's the risk you run at any airline.
There are no guarantees. As the saying goes in this industry, you never know if you made the right career decisions until the day you retire. I would just hate to see good pilots discouraged from applying at UAL. While the current management team leaves a lot (okay, everything) to be desired, this is still a worthwhile company.
The thing that amazes me about this forum (and I'm not necessarily speaking to you specifically, Rott) is the shortsightedness of many who post here and the inability to recognize the cyclical nature of this industry. To say that UAL is the Mesa of the majors is absurd. To think that the UAL pilot group will stand for a crappy contract forever is to grossly misjudge the collective will of the pilots.
I would agree that the UAL pilots took a huge hit in bankruptcy - but it will NOT be like that forever. It may take til 2009 to get back much of what was lost, but hopefully it will happen sooner. To say that morale is in the toilet, as I have read many times here from people who are not UAL pilots, is also a bit of a misnomer. It would be more accurate to say that the pilots are angry at managements actions and failings to act. They want change and recognize that the wrong people are running this company. But most guys don't come to work *****ing and moaning and crying about the state of affairs for 12 hours straight. Instead,they know things need to change and are willing to do what it takes, but are not going to dwell on it throughout the workday. I genuinely enjoy flying with 99% of the people here.
Furthermore, to say that the pay/work rules are the worst in the industry is also incorrect. If you look at the pay calculator available here, and factor in the 15% B-fund (401k) company contribution which most airlines don't have, that puts UAL pilots somewhere in the middle. That being said, I am not satisfied with that. We once had an industry-leading contract, and that is where I want to be again. My point being that, if you're looking to apply at UAL, the compensation is better than most flying jobs and certainly better than any regional that I'm aware of - and it IS going to get better.
If you're thinking of applying to UAL, I would offer a few items for consideration. On the positive side, the UAL pilots contract IS going to improve. This pilot group is dedicated to that. UAL offers all types of flying from 737s to widebodys around the world. The people here, senior mgmt excluded, are good people and great to work with. On the negative side, if a merger comes down the pike or age 65 happens, you may be stuck on the bottom of the list for awhile if you just got hired. But that's the risk you run at any airline.
There are no guarantees. As the saying goes in this industry, you never know if you made the right career decisions until the day you retire. I would just hate to see good pilots discouraged from applying at UAL. While the current management team leaves a lot (okay, everything) to be desired, this is still a worthwhile company.
You don't think the morale is bad at UAL??? It is the absolute WORST it has ever been! Your contract on the 67 is a bit different than ours. Your views would be greatly changed if you flew the 737; the FO's I fly with are ready to quit their jobs and tell UAL to shove it! You wide body guys are on a different planet sometimes, I swear. Come join us here on the 37's and then tell me that life is great at UAL. Still isn't great even on the wide body, in my honest opinion.
UAL use to be a great place to work. I had a great schedule on the DC-10 and the 27's. I made more as an FO on the DC-10 then I did on the 737 now as a captain. I don't know how long you've been at UAL or in the airline industry but I have never seen it this bad at National, Pan AM or UAL (10 years ago). My advice: stay away from UAL and get a job at FedEx or find another profession. I keep trying to tell my son to get into another profession but he doesn't listen.
I certainly wish you the best of luck at UAL if that's where you decide to go but be forewarned, it's not much different than Mesa and my sons' analogy hit it right on the head!SCM
UAL 737 captain, ORD
07-16-2007, 05:37 PM
#15
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: 737 Capt
Posts: 58
Originally Posted by blastboy
The negotiation to get back what the pilots gave away will take FOREVER to get back. Even though the new contract is due in 2009, the pilots are not going to get one that was even close to pre 9/11. UAL pilots will get it back if they all strike. But the company might merge before then....That's what Tilton is waiting on! That will negate any advancement in contract gains! It is not going to get better there for a long long time. Your fingers are going to stay crossed for a while. Contract...getting better? Dream on.
You don't think the morale is bad at UAL??? It is the absolute WORST it has ever been! Your contract on the 67 is a bit different than ours. Your views would be greatly changed if you flew the 737; the FO's I fly with are ready to quit their jobs and tell UAL to shove it! You wide body guys are on a different planet sometimes, I swear. Come join us here on the 37's and then tell me that life is great at UAL. Still isn't great even on the wide body, in my honest opinion.
UAL use to be a great place to work. I had a great schedule on the DC-10 and the 27's. I made more as an FO on the DC-10 then I did on the 737 now as a captain. I don't know how long you've been at UAL or in the airline industry but I have never seen it this bad at National, Pan AM or UAL (10 years ago). My advice: stay away from UAL and get a job at FedEx or find another profession. I keep trying to tell my son to get into another profession but he doesn't listen. I certainly wish you the best of luck at UAL if that's where you decide to go but be forewarned, it's not much different than Mesa and my sons' analogy hit it right on the head!
SCM
UAL 737 captain, ORD
You don't think the morale is bad at UAL??? It is the absolute WORST it has ever been! Your contract on the 67 is a bit different than ours. Your views would be greatly changed if you flew the 737; the FO's I fly with are ready to quit their jobs and tell UAL to shove it! You wide body guys are on a different planet sometimes, I swear. Come join us here on the 37's and then tell me that life is great at UAL. Still isn't great even on the wide body, in my honest opinion.
UAL use to be a great place to work. I had a great schedule on the DC-10 and the 27's. I made more as an FO on the DC-10 then I did on the 737 now as a captain. I don't know how long you've been at UAL or in the airline industry but I have never seen it this bad at National, Pan AM or UAL (10 years ago). My advice: stay away from UAL and get a job at FedEx or find another profession. I keep trying to tell my son to get into another profession but he doesn't listen.
I certainly wish you the best of luck at UAL if that's where you decide to go but be forewarned, it's not much different than Mesa and my sons' analogy hit it right on the head!SCM
UAL 737 captain, ORD
Capt M:
First of all, I agree we will not get back to Contract 2000. Not with the next contract, maybe not ever. But it will improve. Do you really think it won't? Of course Tilton is planning on a merger, he's only said so a thousand times. We'll have to deal with that when it happens and prepare for it as best we can.
As for morale, this is what I said: "most guys don't come to work *****ing and moaning and crying about the state of affairs for 12 hours straight. Instead, they know things need to change and are willing to do what it takes, but are not going to dwell on it throughout the workday." In other words, do what you can to improve things, whether that's FIN or no jr manning or whatever, but don't come to work to roll around in your own misery and complain constantly. Not many do that and I would hope that you don't either. I know I wouldn't want to fly with someone who was constantly complaining.
As for the Mesa comparison - please, get real. I mean no disrespect to you or your son, but the analogy is ludicrous. I've been at UAL for over 10 years. Before that I was at - you guessed it - Mesa. No matter how bad you think things have become, and I was here for the good times too, we are not Mesa. My apologies to the Mesa crowd, but I've been there and am glad I am not anymore. I got what I needed from Mesa - the time and experience to get hired somewhere else.
I am not saying UAL is all peaches and cream. If that's what you got out of my post, then you need to go back and read it again. Our contract is a shell of what it was when we led the industry in 2000. We are going to have to fight for every improvement to our contract - but I AM willing to fight.
Before you go about steering everyone away from applying at UAL, maybe you should take a close look at what flying jobs are really out there. If you think we're not much different than Mesa, take a look at their contract. Seriously. Look at it. I am tired of all the misinformation out there about United. I even read some guy post that United is only above "some bottom-of-the-barrel regionals and some unscheduled 135s." Come on. That type of crap helps no one. Least of all the good men and women who are trying to decide what their next career step should be.
Right now UAL is not as good an option as FDX, UPS, SWA, etc. But this industry is cyclical and it will get better here. We will have to fight for it, but it will get better. So if you're determined to have a career flying planes, UAL is not a bad choice.
07-16-2007, 06:47 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: RC-3 Seabee. Skipper of the A21 cutter.
Posts: 897
Cactus,
I still stand by my comments about UAL.
I have not read the contract eye to eye in regards to Mesa but I do discuss it with the Mesa crew whilst jumpseating on them for the benefit of my son. Maybe he will listen and get the hell out of this industry! And you're right, the contracts are not the same but they certainly have similarties from the sound of it!
I respect that you want to fight for a better life at UAL. I did that once upon a time too. It never worked, it never got better. UAL's union absolutely sucks and needs to grow a set of balls if the contract is to improve in the slightest.
Please, don't misunderstand me about the morale. I was speaking in regards to management; they have the morale of a high school bully. I thoroughly enjoy flying with the people at UAL. They are absolutely outstanding people and they derserve much better than what they have here. I don't foresee a great contract within the next 10 years but for your sake and all the other pilots here, I hope it changes. Seriously, lives have been ruined in the wake of the paycuts and other cuts. I can't imagine it will get any worse.
Right now, I don't think UAL is a great choice unless you are willing to work sub-par for the next 10 years, at least. Compared to working at a regional UAL would be better, but far from great. Cactus, I seriously wish the absolute best for you and I hope to god things take a 180 to a brighter future at UAL. I'll chime in again sometime on a more enjoyable topic....like a seabee topic!! It's time for me to stop sabotaging my sons airline pilot account. Again, all the best for you cactus.
SCM
UAL 737 captain, ORD
I still stand by my comments about UAL.
I have not read the contract eye to eye in regards to Mesa but I do discuss it with the Mesa crew whilst jumpseating on them for the benefit of my son. Maybe he will listen and get the hell out of this industry! And you're right, the contracts are not the same but they certainly have similarties from the sound of it!
I respect that you want to fight for a better life at UAL. I did that once upon a time too. It never worked, it never got better. UAL's union absolutely sucks and needs to grow a set of balls if the contract is to improve in the slightest.
Please, don't misunderstand me about the morale. I was speaking in regards to management; they have the morale of a high school bully. I thoroughly enjoy flying with the people at UAL. They are absolutely outstanding people and they derserve much better than what they have here. I don't foresee a great contract within the next 10 years but for your sake and all the other pilots here, I hope it changes. Seriously, lives have been ruined in the wake of the paycuts and other cuts. I can't imagine it will get any worse.
Right now, I don't think UAL is a great choice unless you are willing to work sub-par for the next 10 years, at least. Compared to working at a regional UAL would be better, but far from great. Cactus, I seriously wish the absolute best for you and I hope to god things take a 180 to a brighter future at UAL. I'll chime in again sometime on a more enjoyable topic....like a seabee topic!!
It's time for me to stop sabotaging my sons airline pilot account. Again, all the best for you cactus.SCM
UAL 737 captain, ORD
07-16-2007, 08:17 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: DFW A320 FO
Posts: 586
I thought I was the only furloughed major airline pilot truly considering staying at a regional. Maybe I'm not as screwed in the head as I feel like most guys think I am.
To go back to USAir and commute for 20-25 years (assuming I don't end up back on the street due to another 9/11 or merger) just seems almost silly. Morale in the tank, long upgrade, bitter pilot groups, crappy operation, zero growth, and a commute halfway across the country just for a couple thousand bucks a month? Hardly seems worth it anymore. Money alone really ain't all that important, but it sure is hard to pass up!
Or I can live where I really want to live, drive 25 mins to work, fly 2-day trips and see my kids everyday, and have more vacation time and better travel privileges. Fortunately I've grown used to living on very little money and not buying new stuff I cannot afford, so once I make captain here I'll be in pretty good shape.
I guess we'll see if I've really learned my lessons pretty soon when my last call comes 'round. It's purely QOL vs. Money. I pray that I don't screw up another decision! At least now I know I'm not the only one who feels this way. Thanks.
To go back to USAir and commute for 20-25 years (assuming I don't end up back on the street due to another 9/11 or merger) just seems almost silly. Morale in the tank, long upgrade, bitter pilot groups, crappy operation, zero growth, and a commute halfway across the country just for a couple thousand bucks a month? Hardly seems worth it anymore. Money alone really ain't all that important, but it sure is hard to pass up!
Or I can live where I really want to live, drive 25 mins to work, fly 2-day trips and see my kids everyday, and have more vacation time and better travel privileges. Fortunately I've grown used to living on very little money and not buying new stuff I cannot afford, so once I make captain here I'll be in pretty good shape.
I guess we'll see if I've really learned my lessons pretty soon when my last call comes 'round. It's purely QOL vs. Money. I pray that I don't screw up another decision! At least now I know I'm not the only one who feels this way. Thanks.
07-16-2007, 08:22 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 757/767
Posts: 890
Wtf?!
Did this guy really go get his daddy to defend him!?! I think I'm starting to get the picture. Explains some of the posts in the past.
Hey "captain" if you want to post get an account.
Sincerely,
Deez's Dad
787 Senior Check Airman, Astronaut
PS
United is in no way analogous to Gojet and only slightly and hopefully temporally analogous to Mesa.
Hey "captain" if you want to post get an account.
Sincerely,
Deez's Dad
787 Senior Check Airman, Astronaut
PS
United is in no way analogous to Gojet and only slightly and hopefully temporally analogous to Mesa.
Last edited by Deez340; 07-16-2007 at 08:42 PM.
07-17-2007, 12:53 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: MD11 CPT
Posts: 1,077
There are no guarantees. As the saying goes in this industry, you never know if you made the right career decisions until the day you retire. I would just hate to see good pilots discouraged from applying at UAL. While the current management team leaves a lot (okay, everything) to be desired, this is still a worthwhile company.[/QUOTE]
Sadly one can't even say that...guys left UAL with a fat A-Plan and a boatload of "valuable" stock only to see it evaporate. Now you might know you made the right choice after you get your lump sum A-Plan like some of the lucky ones at USAir. The biggest wild card in the longer term for UAL is the cabotage boogieman, since the real cream of UAL is their international, and God help us all if Chinese and Indian pilots get their foot in the door.
Sadly one can't even say that...guys left UAL with a fat A-Plan and a boatload of "valuable" stock only to see it evaporate. Now you might know you made the right choice after you get your lump sum A-Plan like some of the lucky ones at USAir. The biggest wild card in the longer term for UAL is the cabotage boogieman, since the real cream of UAL is their international, and God help us all if Chinese and Indian pilots get their foot in the door.
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