giving up the dream?
 

been thinking a lot lately, looking at the finances and such involved, and there is some serious doubt going through my head right now as to pursue this career or not... my heart says yes, because this is what i have wanted to do for my entire life, but the smarts tell me not to... too much turbulence, no pun intended, awful family life, and poor finances for the first few years.. however, all of that i am willing to go through, it happens at every job... the other day, i was given a job guarunteeing me 50K a year working 8-4 monday thru friday.. no OT expected from any of the employees and the work is fairly easy... for a 21 year old, 50K is a lot of money... but the passion for flying is still intense and i fly 4-5 times a week as a result... from playing football here, everyone wants to say that UConn's QB flew their plane or whatever, so I log tons and tons of free hours, lots of complex too by the way... however, i am faced with dropping the idea entirely and taking my 50K, or keep going...
secondly, as another resort, thanks to overly wealthy business people i know on the jersey shore, i could start a commuter line, similar to Cape Air, which would fly exclusively from KBLM to Nantucket and the islands up there, and down towards Ocean City, MD and Outer Banks, NC... bunch of guys with too much money want to do this, because they are actually hot destinations from NJ...

really confused right now... advice is welcome

UConn,

It is a pickle, no doubt about it. But you don't necessarily have to give up your dream. If you are passionate about flying, then keep flying. You never know what kind of doors will open up. Whether or not you should put all your eggs in one basket today is up to you, but the bottom line is that in order to get paid to fly you need experience, and to gain experience you need to fly. Two or three years from now there is no telling where the industry will be and wouldn't it be nice to have a bunch of time logged if things do turn around. But as many have said before, have a backup plan. At your age you have some time :D.

That's my approach. IT pays the bills, puts food on the table, and pays for flying. I'd love to get paid to fly, no doubt about it. My wife is very supportive of my aspirations (and she makes good money ;). So for now I can afford to fly, build time, get that CFI, and see what happens. Maybe I'll fly for an airline. Maybe I'll fly corporate, or maybe I'll stay in IT and instruct on the weekends and do Angel Flights or something. Who knows. But if I stop flying now I'll never find out.

If you are passionate about something by all means do it. It is quite a gift to have a passion. I know people that don't have any hobbies because they have spent so much time working that they don't even know what they're interested in (my wife is one of these people). Consider yourself lucky. Stay immersed in your passion and doors will open. It may not be the cockpit door of a 777, but maybe it's not supposed to be.

Clear skies.

Don't give up
 

Uconn,
I'm not a professional pilot, yet. But I do know exactly where you will be if you give up the dream. Like you, I've always had the dream of flying for a living. After I graduated college, I didn't think that becomming a pilot was a realistic idea. So, I gave up on the dream. Here I am at the age of 29, giving up my successfull corporate job to follow my dream that I should have done 8 years ago.

I thought that becoming a corporate executive was the way to go....makes lots of money.....comfortable lifestyle....lots of time for family....stable employment....all of those things that people say is opposite to a career in flying. I've worked hard for the past 8 years, got my MBA, and I've moved right up the corporate ladder. After that time, I've realized that I don't like working in corportate America. Maybe it's just my job, or my boss, or my company. But one thing has always come back around, and that's my passion for flying.

I may be a little behind some people, but I'm going to do it. I've been successful in everything I've ever done, and I'll be successful at flying.

It's true that you need to have a back-up plan. You're still very young, and if you're getting the kind of flight time that you mentioned, you won't have any problem getting a good job. But, DON'T give up on the dream. You'll regret it for as long as you live. Trust me. It's tough to turn down that 50k a year job, and make much less starting out. But, if you don't have passion for what your doing you won't like it.

I'm sure you've heard the saying but it's worth repeating. 'If your job is something that you love, you'll never work a day in your life.'

UConn,

Your are a smart guy, taking the 50k job does not mean giving up flying. You have read about how the airline industry sucks, unless you are lucky to be at SWA, UPS or FedEX. The industry, has always had it its ups and downs. Now is not a great time to be starting out, or even a senior pilot at any of the Majors, but that will change. It may not ever be the great job that it was, in the late 60s or even the 70s, but it will be a honest living. Just keep flying and be ready, if things look better in the next 5 years then go for it. Also, the Angle Flight Idea above is great, I was a Medevac Pilot in the Army, and it was the best job. You get a great feeling by helping someone in there time of need. Good Luck in all that you do.

UConn,

I've said it before and I'll say it again - consider the military. With your background and leadership experience gained at such an early age you'll be ready for anything the AF, Navy, Army, or Marines want to throw at you in OTS / UPT...You'll never be ready for the leadership challenges active duty will throw your way- but you'll be developing everyday as a leader...That experience is worth more than you can realize - companies the world over want military officers / NCOs to fill management positions. You're by default a leader of men. No wiggle room there...

I know you mentioned family reasons for not going with the military and I respect that. IMHO, someone with your desire / energy will be wasted in a office...You're a natural leader - you could make a difference in the lives of people young / old by being a military officer...

I just wanted to put my thoughts on the table...

Sincerely,
LA

Take the 50k job. As you work-budget for flight time and additional ratings.
Get a CFI- teach part time. All the time you'll have steady income while staying in aviation. If the industry changes- get back into it.

For now you'd be better off the a stable job and family life. Always remember-whats important. This industry is in the crapper right now. If you do decide to stick it out- its a gamble.

I was at the same point recently. I was offered a management position with the company I currently work for. I would have stayed in the industry and had a nice salary. It came down to two things:

1) I'd be looking at that aircraft sitting on the ramp every day for the rest of my life wishing I was one of the guys in the front.

2) Living simply now, along with hard work, and a little luck will result in better pay, and conversely a better lifestyle than that job could afford in a few years.

What it comes down to is this: Do a lot of soul searching. Do what's right for you. If you can't imagine doing anything else, suck it up and go for it. You're a football player if I recall so you know about toughness. You have a degree that you can always fall back on if in a couple years you decide you want out. If you don't have the responsiblities of a wife and kids, do it now because once your family is established it's going to be even harder to leave them, subject them to the huge lifestyle change that comes with going from a 50k per year management job to a 20k per year regional FO, or uproot them becuase you're junior and on reserve making commuting basically impossible.

Take the 50k paycheck...CFI on your days off and at night to build time and pad your finances even more. After 2 years, which is not that long, you hopefully will have been smart enough to save a good amount of money. Now you have the cushion you need to endure a few years of F/O pay and even a furlough. if you have the chance to get ahead, do! It is easy to fall beind the financial curve early on. Also, two years of corporate experience could become very valuable one day if you do get furloughed, or lose your medical. Real world experience on your resume will make you far more marketable in the job hunt than just a degree. In two years, the industry should hopefully being nearing the end of the shakedowns...how much more can we endure? yes, you will be farther down the seniority list wherever you end up, but you should be able to find some airline with quick upgrade somewhere (colgan will forever be hiring), and in short order you can be right back up with your current peers who went to a company with longer upgrade time. I fell two years behind myself, and am now positioned to reach a major earlier than my friends at Eagle and Comair. And my friends who went for Colgan after me may get there even earlier than me. You can make the situation work out in your favor. Also, many regionals are flirting with furloughs right now. Major airlines are forcing the regionals to compete against each other for flying, and the "solid" contract someone like Chautauqua has with USAir could evaporate overnight and all the flying could end up at Mesa. I say sit this mess out for two years in a job that offers you financial security, a chance to build your "plan B" career, and gives you enough free time to fly on the side and build your flight experience (get that MEI and use it!). i don't think you will be sorry

best advice yet
 

that was the best advice i have heard in a while.. the job i can take now is working a warehouse and doing some shipping for a budweiser distributor outside of hartford, ct... its about 48K a year and allows me to live near my girlfriend and friends, while staying close to my alma mater... the job is good because my name is familiar with this section of CT, so i want to stay close to people who know me... i still do want to fly though, thats the problem im faced with... my only fear is that i will get so in depth in this budweiser thing, i wont have time to fly or get more ratings, or lose all currency and forget how to fly all together... ive worked hard to fly until this point, just dont want to see it go down the tubes...

ps. does working at a place like TACair as a financial type person qualify as something other than flying?

The best of both worlds. Staying in the industry, at a corporate position like that may give you an edge in terms of networking. If TACair has a flight department it could pay dividends as well once you get your 135 minimums

Maybe Bud Owns a corporate jet you can fly some day?

There are a lot of airline captains who should have, and maybe have said the same thing....hahaha!

Good luck!

They own a few. Own a helocopter too!

UConnQB14,

Read this post carefully! I was in law school back in 84-85 finished my first year, thought it was pretty easy, my fellow classmates were not the kind of guys and girls I was used to hanging with...very much into "chasing the buck" and for many of them being a lawyer was a means to an end $$$$. I knew I didn't belong with them...My best friend taught me to fly in a C-152 and getting my private ticket was the highest goal I had...Then one day I ran into an Air Force recruiter and started BS-ing with him. Turns out I had a pretty good resume, and an excellent chance at getting a slot in USAF Pilot training! I never dreamed I could do something like that! Always thought Air Force pilots were calculus wiz-kids and Academy Grads. Long story short..6 months later with 58 hours total time, I'm flying a T-37! and 5 months after that I broke the sound barrier!!! The moral of the story Follow your HEART..I knew If I stayed in law school I'd have a great future, I also knew I'd always regret not having the "balls" to chase a dream. I can't tell you how many times I've been at parties, weddings etc when some guy comes up to me and tells me how he always wanted to fly jets but......fill in the blanks...don't be one of those people..You've found an area of comfort in Conn due to your football career and you can ride a few coatails for a while, but deep in your soul you'll forever wonder "should I" CHASE YOUR DREAM!! $50,000 a year jobs are a dime a dozen, especially for a college grad football hero...There are 2 famous quotes I have hanging in my study one by Teddy Roosevelt, the other a Robert Frost poem
The Roosevelt quote paraphrased
"The credit belongs to the man in the arena, who does not sit idly by and watch others. Whose face is marred by sweat, dust, and blood..This man spends himself in a worthy cause..He knows the sheer exhilaration of achieveing greatness and the bitter agony of failure..Yet if He fails, He fails DARING GREATLY..So that his place shall never be with those COLD TIMID SOULS who know neither great victory nor bitter defeat"

"I have taken the road less traveled, and that has made all the difference"
Robert Frost

Don't end up like all these corporate, minivan driving guys who wished they could have Dared Greatly!!! Your football experience has certainly given you a taste of what I'm trying to express, don't step down from the mountain...keep climbing to the summit!
Good Luck
Vito

Vito, very well said! Couldn't agree more.

Dreams
 

UConn,

For every Vito there are a few dozen sad stories of broken men who lost everything chasing a dream that was never meant to be. I understand the "follow your heart" thing but a little caution is wise. It could take you 10 years and most everything else in your life that you value to make it to earning 50K as a pilot.

Stories about guys like Vito are rare and unknowingly launch a thousand pilot careers into oblivion. Everyone loves to pass along the hero tale, but no one wants to hear about the 21 year old who was killed on approach flying night cargo or of the 58 year old who committed suicide after he was laid off from his last chance airline.

The average experience in aviation is of being chewed up and spit out. I would have a strong plan A with aviation being a smaller plan B. Try a little. You might just end up being the next Vito, but always keep it as a back up plan.

People like to accuse me of being negative. I am not. My attitude and opinions come from experience and I believe that mine is from the majority.

SkyHigh

SkyHigh,

Just remember He's a young kid with no strings or committments, now is the time to follow a dream, its too late after the wife, kids, and mortgage! Then He'll be lika all those legions of "wanabee, minivan drivers out there who took the road More Travelled"
By the way, You should be proud of the fact that you've been marred by the mud, dust, and blood of the battle!!You've seen defeat, but don't let it beat you!! Like the quote says...You are not like those COLD TIMID SOULS!

Dear Vito
 

Dear Vito,

Actually he does have a betrothed one and much else to loose. Even the young and unattached have friends, family, self respect, community, financial security and the enthusiasm of youth. A few years in aviation can wipe away all those things and since you like to quote authors, once gone "you can never go home again".

As for myself next year I will turn 40. I have been blessed with a wonderful wife and soon will have four young sons. Aviation has consistently kicked me to the curb. My career momentum is gone. At this point my odds are extremely dim and the price way too high. If you have any ideas I would love to hear them but as you know it takes a lot of money to properly care for a family. Just last week I turned down an interview with a local cargo outfit. The job would have meant moving my family from our small farm paradise and into a 2 bedroom apartment in a tuff urban neighborhood. At my stage in life I need a real job that offers real hope and pay. Nothing is on the horizon.

Perhaps some day I will be able to venture back. Thanks for your encouragement and support.

SkyHigh,

One thing that 6.5 years as an FO with finally a salary back to the 40K a year that I was making 8 years ago (before flying) is that you have to decide for yourself what is right. I know that sounds really easy to say and really hard to do, but take in all the advice and stories and make the best decision you can with that info, on that day, at that time, and then don't look back. IMHO you are young and with no kids, wife, mortgage, you do have the unique ability to do anything for a little time. If what ever you try doesn't workout, switch. But I will say that even as bitter as I am flying along with guys next to me that got there because of some misarbitrated contract decision, I still love flying and it would be really hard to give it up.

Don't end up like all these corporate, minivan driving guys who wished they could have Dared Greatly!!! Your football experience has certainly given you a taste of what I'm trying to express, don't step down from the mountain...keep climbing to the summit!
Good Luck
Vito[/QUOTE]

Well I guess I'm just a corporate minivan driver. Do they have a seperate forum for dirtbags like me?

UConn
 

UConn

I am basically in the same boat you are. I am 24 yrs old and am a Lt in the Air Force. I am most likely going to give up my 40k a year (50k here in the next few months), to chase the dream. It is all I want to do with my life and nothing is going to stop me, not the fear of poverty, not the tough road ahead flight instructing to make ends meet, nothing. My wife thinks I am crazy to a point, but she knows its what I want therefore she wants it for me. Its gonna be tough,we both know that, but I am willing to put forth any and all effort necessary. If it doesnt work out in the end, at least Ill have my paid for Meteorology college degree to fall back on and Ill never have to say, "If only I'd given it a shot." Thats my biggest fear, wondering what might have been if I didnt give it a shot. Best of luck to you in making your decision!! Just remember, in the words of the Kinkos guy on "Jerry Maguire"..."thats how you become great man, hang your balls out there." :D

Loudgarretdriver,

Your worse! an Eagles Fan!!!!!!! I'm talking about the type of guys I meet all the time who are quick to tell me they're the "regional vice-president for TDF associates, the worlds largest supplier of operating room breathing devices!!!!!!!! I know when I was a kid I dreamt about that!! Or the guys I see at airports on cell phones all day yapping about synergy, lets brainstorm yada yada yada....not my cup of tea, but no offense intended (except the Eagle remark) Most guys become pilots to escape that type of lifestyle. But in all seriousness I know alot of pilots who drive mini-vans, and lots of corporate types with the "Right stuff" as they say...
Take Care,
Go Seahawks!!

No offense taken. ;) Just kidding in my post.

I've flown with a few of those "synergy" types and listened to my fair share of get rich quick guys. Its funny- by the end of they day they cook these hair brained schemes to make a fortune, but surprisingly enough they never get rich.

As, for us rotten Philly fans- that's true. Let's see how the battle of the bird goes on Monday night! It be nice to have a healthy team but I better stop now- this isn't a sports chatroom.

Safe travels

loudgarrettdriver,

I live in the part of NJ thats half eagle fans half NY Giants/Jets..personally I'm a Green Bay fan even though I grew up in NY....The 4th and 26 game and last weeks hurt!! I took alot of abuse from my Eagle fan buddies...lucky for me those 3 count them THREE SUPER BOWL RINGS!!! soften the pain!!!
Take Care,