Pilots with Guns
 

Okay, this was mentioned in a recent post about airport security. A while ago, there was a huge controversy about the issue of self defence on airplanes. From the pilots' perspectives, do you think pilots should be able to carry guns/weapons on their flights? If so, would you?

Yes, yes. 9-11 would not have happened in part or entirely if the pilots were armed that day. Pretty simple.

Many pilots already do via the US Federal Flight Deck Officer program... but, to answer your questions... yes and yes.

On first consideration I hate the fact that's it come to the point that pilots need/and or want to carry guns. However, I can't devorce my feeling from reality: Slice makes an good point. Although I may not like it--in this day and age--I think it wouldn't be a bad idea for Pilots to be armed.

Why not? The problem is that the current FFDO program allows pilots to carry guns with the intention of defending the cockpit only, which means that people can be killing each others in the back, destroying the cabin, etc., and you cannot shoot anyone unless they break into the cockpit (it may be too late then).
They should modify such regulations.

I guess I'll be the lone voice that says no to guns on airplanes- be it an air marshal or a pilot. These guys are trained as pilots, not officers of the law. I really would not trust him/her reaction in such an unusual circumstance, despite the few weeks training they have.

And I'll be the guy to make the blanket-statement response: :D

If someone is dumb enough to try to break into the flight deck, they deserve to be the subject of whatever irrational act the crew might commit.

Are there any restrictions on the weapons allowed? I can't imagine the Feds allowing a Desert Eagle .50 AE onboard or a S&W Model 500. In the future I'd like to go through this program and carry an FN Five Seven, if possible.

The weapon is issued by the federal government... type of weapon is, I believe classified so I cannot comment further.

Pete,

Firstly, I like the acronyms. I should get them printed on a shirt next time I fly :D

I'm not saying that pilots should not defend themselves. I'm saying that I doubt the few weeks of training that these guys get will fully prepare them to stare death in the face. I've seen people do some pretty silly things under less stressful conditions. Do you think that a gun is ideal in this situation? What happens next? A good ol' fassioned western shoot out? In a pressurized airplane with essential wires, cables and tubes, all invisible from the cabin, and converging on the cockpit? Doesn't seem like a smart move to me.

Thanks, I wish I could take credit for coming up with those....I've thought of the shirt thing a few times, but I've never done it...

Also, I agree with what you say in this post, I just had to throw that earlier post out there. What do you think would be a preferable alternative to firearms?

The training is very thorough and the rules are clear. In a quick, life or death situation over control of the flight deck, I can assure you that each highly trained FFDO will take the appropriate course of action to protect the aircraft, crew and passengers.

I imagine a stun gun, or a taser would be great. The taser would allow you to disable an attacker from a distance.

And render him a non-threat for about 30 seconds? What then? The key is neutralizing the threat quickly and permanently so you can return to your flying duties immediately.

I'm sure the training is no walk in the park Diver, but my point is that it's only training. Consider that before an officer actually fires his weapon, he's gone through more extensive training, and has probably had to deal with several smaller incidents while on duty- each of which better prepares him to be in a "safe" mental state to fire a gun. That way, by the time he reaches for the gun, it's not his first really tough situation. Do you think that the pilot will be able to call on the same experience and maturity when suddenly faced with this sort of crisis? It certainly isn't covered in any of the FAA training requirements I've seen.

I don't know how long these things last, or weather or not they can be fired again to give you another 30 seconds. Don't you think that 30 seconds is enough time to disarm an attacker?

You know nothing about the FFDO training process... Trust me, they are ready. The FAA doesnt really have anything to do with the FFDO program, that falls under the supervision of the Transportation Security Administration.

Where's the EDIT button gone?

In addition, it's not as if the pax/attendants will be just sitting there like idiots. I presume they'd make some attempt to restrain an attacker once he's down...

I'll admit that I've only read about it in articles written by members of the aviation community, but even if these guys are indeed ready (and I'm sure that some are), accidents will happen. Somebody's aim can be off. Now you've got a bullet (or multiple bullets) lodged somewhere that's causing all sorts of red lights in the cockpit.

That's where the department of redundancy department comes in handy in aircraft design. :D

I'd rather knock out power to one of the two coffee makers and the lav lights than lose control of the flight deck. You have much to learn about aircraft design young grasshopper.

What about the second or third guy coming through the door? Tazer is a one shot deal. Firing a gun ain't that hard, especially after the training. Draw, aim, shoot, dead. Rinse and repeat as required. Your talking about people that are trying to kill you. ***?

I'm aware of system redundancy, but tell that to the United DC10 crew after they lost all their hydraulics. Redundancy has it's limits. How many times have well designed planes suffered electrical losses despite multiple generators? Let's not go off on a tangent about system design though.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree Diver. Who knows, maybe we'll meet in a cockpit one day and you'll change my mind. maybe I'll change yours, but for now, I'm against guns on airplanes.

Lose electrical power and the ADG deploys providing power to all essential systems. Perhaps we will fly together, if that is the case you will have to put up with the fact that I will have my weapon ready to protect you and the aircraft in case it is needed.

What makes you think I'm a young grashopper? Truth is, I am.;) I look forward to learning though. This seems to be one of those issues that has few people on the fence. Either strongly for or against. Let's chat about something more pleasant next time...:D

What's an ADG? Air Driven Genarator? Not all aircraft have those.

No hard feelings bro, It's hard to convey certain attitudes/feelings when typing, but im just joking around with ya. I agree that many have different attitudes towards it, I am a fan, others are not.. that's just the way it is and will always be...

Mine does....:cool: :D


I should either go to bed or apply to UPS and fly night freight...

Show off!!:rolleyes:

No hard feelings whatsoever. And to prove it, I'll but you a virtual drink.

Thanks for sharing your views, but you have been quite clearly made moot by people who have both the authority and the knowledge to respond in the correct manner.
Now, if we could just get the euroweenies on board.

In the grand scheme of things, people without enough drugs or too many drugs are probably the biggest threat, but a target is a target regardless of motive. It beats a shootdown or big building strike.

Slice, we are hiring over at the 93d. Could use some soft hearted, wishy washy, sensitive types. YOU qualify.:D Godamn brother, you don't say much on the forum I disagree with....scary.

It's hard to miss someone coming through a narrow door a couple feet away.

If an FFDO did miss, I'd rather put a couple of missed shots in the forward lav or galley than let the plane hit a building and kill untold numbers (including me!).

FFDO's are trained to do the job. I was cop before and I've never fired my weapon on duty. FFDO's are just as ready to be in a "lethal force" situation as any LEO is. It's really kind of simple compared to street situations. Bad guy is trying to get in the cockpit and take the plane down; I'm going to stop him. I wish it was that easy as a LEO. There are hundreds of different situations on the ground and some of them are lose-lose situations.

I do agree there are some people/pilots who should never have a gun. I hope the FFDO screening takes care of that. I know there were lots of cops who shouldn't have them. I worked with them!

In my opinion, the only people that should be armed on airplanes are flight attendants and air marshals. The pilots are too busy flying the plane, and under a high stress situation like a hijacking, their main problem is controlling the plane and everyone who's in it. The flight attendants should be trained to deal with problems before they ever augment to the point that pilots should be armed.