Burbank flyer asks for help
 

I've been around the world, but have developed a fear of flying.

Anyone at a nearby airport willing to let me do a process on a jet? Or know of anyone that might be willing to let me do such? Maybe a cargo carrier would be more agreeable to the idea.


Thanks for your help.

It depends on what is specifically involved in the "process". Due to TSA rules, you won't have access to a commercial aircraft unless you are a ticketed passenger. Cargo airlines are even more restrictive due to ramp access. Private aircraft offer a possibility as access is somewhat relaxed.

Thanks HSLD. My problem is that I get a ticket and get on the jet, but as I start to walk down the tunnel to getting on the plane I start panicking and by the time I get to my seat I have a terrible panic attack and leave the plane before they close the door.

Maybe I should contact a private jet company and see if they would allow such.

What does a process include? Is it just being on a jet, or are you looking to go fly? This forum has over 10,000 working pilots - I'm sure if you have any questions about the noises or sensations you feel when flying you'd be sure to get a good answer.

BTW, great portfolio on your site, I love the subway pic!

Are there any underlining issues that might be causing this? Claustrophobia is very much a leading cause I have found. Usually once a month or two a pax will request to get off due to this. Have you been able to fly in the past or had a bad experience in an aircraft that might trigger the panic attack?

On another note, you may or may not be familiar with this, but there is a site forum totally devoted to fear of flying, check it out as it may provide more precise help, although we would be happy to answer any questions for you: Taking Flight - Fear of Flying Support - Powered by vBulletin

Hi HSLD,
Thanks for the compliments on the train pic. Not only was it a great location, but those two were so in love it just radiates out of the image.

The process is called, 'reach and withdraw', where I reach for some part of the plane and then withdraw from it. Its a rote process done until I blow through all of the psycho- somatic non-sense and can be there comfortably.

My problem is emotional , it has nothing to do with the analytical mind. I studied engineering ( aerospace ) and my father designed aircraft- stress analysis. I've endured countless lectures on design, safety stats, engine performance- from the Rolls Royce to the GE on down the line, how the tested strength is double what is needed, and so on etc...

When I fly or have flown with my father, I get a narration of everything, so I pretty much know already what is going on and when.

But thanks for the idea.

Based on the need to be in a aircraft, a bizjet may be your best option simply due to airport access issues that the TSA imposes on airliners. I'm still not clear if you need to go flying, but if sitting in an aircraft inside a hangar somewhere would do it then I think it's a real possibility.

Thanks for the advice , but I've already been to the fear of flying forums and those haven't helped. I even paid a huge amount of money to an online shrink to help me, but she didn't really help me. On my last flight I panicked and got off.

This is such a problem, and I'm determined to overcome it.

A private biz jet sounds like the ticket as what I need to do is be in and around the jet and not flying.

I'll try to find one of those companies around Burbank airport, or maybe Whitman airport.

This may not be the best way to deal with it, but have you tried to use Dramamine or some other over the counter medicine (or like nyquil) before you fly to relax you and make you tired so you might have a chance to self overcome it? The reason I suggest this is because I think once you get airborne and have that first flight behind you, the next time you get in a plane it wont be so bad since you wont have the thought of flying on a proverbial pedestal and it will be more familiar...

Hi Diver Driver,

I have taken two flights since the beginning of this problem, but each start with a series of walk offs. Then I take some xanax and even have some alcohol before boarding , starting the day or so before, and then at the airport and then onboard. My last flight from Mexico City was the second one I booked from Mex City and took xanax and some alcohol, beer at the airport and then the FA kept my glass full of champagne.

I'm a bit worried about not only not going but how to get back.

I do think your right about getting airborne, once I'm up its a lot less stress for some reason.

I'm hoping one of those private plane companies won't mind me doing this.

You obviously are serious about this and want to get through it successfully. So why not just learn to fly yourself? By the time you set up a hangar visit to see an idling jet you may begin your own flight training. Small airplanes are miniature airliners. What we learn in them absolutely applies to large transport aircraft. It will absolutely help make you more aware of how they work and what is going on when you are in the back of an Airbus. Airline pilots get their start in training aircraft just like the one you will fly. If you get your private pilot license you will have some fun learning and I guarantee you will lose your fear of flying.

One of the most amazing things is how people fall asleep on commercial airline flights. I see these events as educational field trips. They are applied demonstrations of airplane design, airplane operation, applied technology, flight operations, human factors, psychology, weather dynamics, geography, piloting, and safety research. All this plus a Mach 0.8 thrill ride. It's a rich sensory environment that most people fail to appreciate. I admire you for making an effort to bridge the gap.

The risk in airline flying is overplayed in the minds of most people because they do not really know the risks. I think people are unable to mentally organize the physical forces, sounds and sights in flying which overloads their brains and causes them to log off mentally. It is not the physical drain of traveling by airplane. It is lack of ability and knowledge to sort out the many sources of visual, auditory and physical stimulus into their meaningful components. Without an education on the way airplanes fly there is no way to do this and they mentally shut down. I suspect fear is a variation of the sleep response of most people in dealing with something they are unable to sort into meaningful parts. Those whose response is to fear it actually have an advantage because their mind is telling them they need more information to handle things. This is a condition that can be altered by training.

I have a background in aerospace and presently work as an aircraft systems designer for a large company. College did little for my understanding of the flight experience. I was very timid about flying at first, stalls scared the heck out of me, but by joining the university flying club I gained an understanding of aircraft flying behavior which lent depth to my engineering studies as well. I noticed that even the best engineering students lacked a broader view of engineering than if they had taken some flight training. They could calculate well but had a poor idea how what they were calculating plays into the overall symphony of an aircraft design.

Good luck and keep us apprised what happens. Take some flying lessons!

-Cub

Not to make light of the situation, but Xanax and alcohol, you sound like a pilot already LOL. Good luck with you quest. Most if the charter companies shouldn't charge to just sit in the plane at first, so I wouldn't hesitate to call one up.

I looked into my local community college flight school and it appears as though the first two classes are: Private Pilot Lab, 2 units, at a local small airport, and then the ground school is at the college.

Do you think those two courses will enlighten me enough to be rid of my fear?

Arlene you would want to actually fly a trainer airplane with an instructor to really get anything out of it. Flight schools have a "discovery flight" to help introduce brand new pilots to the cockpit. You are taken up for 20 minutes in a Cessna 172 and get to see if you like it. It costs about $50. You may try moving the controls on this flight but are not held responsible for the success and you do not have to know anything to take it.

After that you would want to start a flight training program. There are two types of these programs- ones that are structured and run through an accredited institution, these are called Part 141. The rest are not formally structured and go under the name Part 61. The college you refer to probably offers the former which has the advantage of being more organized and predictable than the other type. The advantage of Part 61 on the other hand, is it is a go-at-your-own pace kind of thing.

If those courses include some actual flight time then yes, take them. Flight training always consists of alternating ground school and in-air flight training. You need both and it sounds like the lab course is the in-air part.

PS we like photography around here and I see you have some wonderful skills in this area- take your camera with you to the airport!

Hi Cubdriver,
the 50 $ intro flights for 20 minutes will either kill me or help me. LOL.

I bet I could find some of those around here. I did go on one Cessna Acrobatic two seater to Catalina Island once, with a pilot who did loops and stalls on the way back over the Ocean. If the headsets would have worked properly he would have had a huge headache.

I thought I should put my website info. so you all don't think I'm some Osama radical looking for something, and also I did take it down but then it wasn't quick enough and one of the other peeps noticed. So what the heck.

Ok, so far I've done the via phone for four three hour session with a licensed psychologist and that didn't help at all. And I'm getting a partial refund of 30 percent of what I paid her. 400 bucks back.

I"ve downloaded and paid for Capt. Stacey Chance's various podcasts and CD tracks and those seem to help somewhat. I like the one of the noises of takeoff and I can get used to those.

I did my first virtual reality with light hypnosis on Saturday , and supposedly after two more sessions I'll be okay to go up. I have to say I do feel good after the virtual reality therapy.

I'll let you all know how this turns out.

;)

I learned to fly because I was scared. Now I run a flight school at the Van Nuys Airport. Dealing with fear is one of our specialities. We use a process of gradual exposure, described in "The Anxiety and Phobia Workbook" by Edmund Bourne. Most of what we do is in the book.

If you want to do a flight lesson, ours isn't the $50 sensational flight. I happen to like a takeoff, followed by a few gentle turns, straight and level, a few gentle turns, and a smooth landing, no matter what size of aircraft I'm flying. I can refer you to instructors at Van Nuys and Whiteman Airports that think similarly.

If you would like more information, or have a question on something you read in the book, you can PM me.

Best of luck in trying to resolve the issues.

Arlene,

First- your website is great. No doubt- you excel at what you do.

10 years ago- I started having panic attacks- for no discernable reason. I only had 10-15 of them and then they stopped on their own and haven't returned. Let me say, after these episodes, I would never minimize a panic attack or anxiety in general. They would just occur- in the middle of a sales presentation, here, there, etc.

I had one as a PAX on an aircraft as it was boarding and almost got off. I got through them by "talking myself down" and I think after I recognized the signs of one coming on I would "deal with it" and it truly minimized the impact.
Never had counseling or drugs to deal with them, thankfully.

Ironically, my life is more stressful than ever- but never an inkling anymore.

Until I read your posts I hadn't thought about them in years. But boy, I can empathize.

On another note- I'm scared of heights and ladders. Having spent 5 years as a volunteer firefighter/EMT, I had to deal with it. It was a well known fact in the firehouse and became a little bit of a running joke. Funnily enough, other crazy things we did didn't bother me at all. At the end of the day my friends kept challenging me and I kept going up the ladders. Never liked it, still don't, but did it anyway. I'd like to think the other guys gave me a little credit for it. I think if you get in an airplane, take a little control of the situation, it'll go a long way to reducing your anxiety.

I suppose this is not much help. I do hope you can conquer your fear.

Hi jedinein,
I am looking into taking some flight courses at a local college. I went over to Van Nuys airport and watched the take offs and landings. I thought the Raytheon jets looked cool, even if they were somewhat disassembled. Whats up with the jets engines being removed?

I was surprised to see some larger aircraft, there was at least one mostly Orange colored Boeing 737 or something like that. Its near the Raytheon building. I thought that might help just to sit in one and get used to it.

Also, I didn't think those larger (Boeing 757 or 737) could land at Van Nuys, I thought the runways were too short. Anyhow, it was nice to see all of the take offs and landings.

I used to wonder where all of those expensive cars getting off the 405 at Sherman Way were going, now I know. ;)

OldAg84,

Thanks for the compliments on my website and work.

I'm determined to get over this fear. I can hardly believe I have such a problem. I'm so capable and have such a disability really. If I don't get over it, I won't be able to enjoy the world and will be mainly stuck in my So Cal region, which is nice but I'd like to get out every so often and see something different.

I'm getting over it for sure. My worst case scenario is that I'm wasting all this money with these VR training, etc... and wait until Fall semester to enroll in the flight courses, and see where that takes me.

Arlene I was scared of heights growing up and really nervous about any kind of stalls when I started my flight training. I would get this massive adrenaline rush whenever my instructor said stalls were on the lesson plan and while we performed them. I was willing to tough out the traning and now after thousands of them I do not get a rush at all. It's all about investigating something enough to know what causes it and why it happens. Flying is the same way, when you know a lot about it there simply is not that much to go wrong and you can relax. Knowledge gradually replaces all the unknowns that serve as the root of the fear. On the other hand, some fear is a natural reaction to unknown circumstances, not only in flying but in everything, and almost everyone gets a mild rise out of some part of flying even when they are highly experienced. The mind is saying "there may be something dangerous here and you need to be on the lookout". I am not a psychologist, but I think that knowledge is the cure for your fear.

A lot of what has been said here has been great advice. I was afraid of heights, so I took up rock climbing. It worked.

Taking a ground school first, then maybe a couple flight lessons would be a great way to try and work through this fear. I had a couple students do this when I was instructing. It started as ground school and by the end, both were on their way to soloing. I still keep in touch with one and she has had no problems flying since then.

I went in today for my second of three hypnotist, virtual reality therapy. Seemed pretty easy today. I realized most of my stress is at the gate, taxi-ing, and take off. After that I'm pretty good. Landings are no big deal.

Although I'm starting to wonder if my 'therapist' is a fraud. My lawyer , whom I chat with, thinks he's not nearly qualified since he's really young, and got his ph.d. from Capella U. over the internet.

I figure if VR works for training and desensitization it doesn't really matter who is doing it- a. And b. its all hocus pocus bs anyhow.

If it works it works.

I'm just wondering if I should book a flight for this Friday, since I should be ready to fly after our last session on Thursday.

I could take a short one hour flight from lax to santa barbara and then there isn't any pressure since I could take the train back, if I chicken out.

I like to avoid ground stops, as I find those stressful, as well as being stuck controlless on the plane.

I"m thinking morning flights are the best way to go.

Ideas??

Try and catch the pilots before they board, or speak to the gate agent. Let the person know you're a nervous passenger, and you'd like to have a chat with one of the pilots to help your fears. If there's time, I'm sure they'll say yes, and will be happy to answer questions. Have a list of questions to ask (but don't make the list tooooo long).

Here is the link to the college's aviation page with courses- which ones should I take?

http://secure.glendale.edu/schedules...TRANSPORTATION

I figure the first two should be

AT 112

I don't have the pre- req for 114,

but I could take

AT 120

I have a question about AT 112- private pilot lab 1, it looks suspiciously like I might have to go into and fly an airplane as its conducted at WHITMN, which is an airport. Or might it just be we have a course room over there, and get familiar with items?

At 112 and AT 120 appear to be flight training in an airplane, and ground school for the preceding, respectively. Go do it! I would call Curt Potter and ask him if there are any supplies you need and what times he can schedule your lessons. Also, you can be sure the flight training carries a pretty hefty hourly cost ($100/hr?), so make sure you ask about that too. I looked up Glendale Community College in the airplane registry and I see they own 3 or training aircraft so you will be flying an old 172 or a 150. You're gunna love it!

Fall semester starts on September 2nd, so I have some time to burn before that. Wish I could get on plane today.

Cubdriver,
thanks for the tip on asking about the flight training hourly cost. I'll email him and see whats up with that. I checked out those two cessna's on wikipedia, it says they are the most built aircrafts, and mainly used for training since they are easy to fly.

I'm *still* scared of ladders and hate being on top of them or workstands without "one hand myself, the other for ship's work"...but have no problems flying a Piper Cub with the door wide open (for instance).

The weirdest is crawling out onto the wingtip of something tall.

Arlene: LAX-OXR is shorter than LAX-SBA (15 minutes comes to mind, actually, in the EMB-120), although I don't remember if you can easily get to the train station from Oxnard "International" and there's not a lot to do in OXR.