Picken's plan?
07-12-2008, 02:43 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
" ...I agree, but I like how you said "Nonsense" to my quote which said "The idea of the European Union was that they are mostly smaller countries and to act as one would make them stronger..."
Well, I’m sorry, that was just my cheap shot for this:
“ …It is plain and simple, if Turkey was christian they would have been part of the union long ago. To me I think this is nonsense since there is a large amount of angry Muslims already in the UK and France but people feel happy saying no to Turkey even though they would crack down on extremism faster than the UK or France ever would do… ”
I don’t think that’s nonsense at all and disagree with your “Europeans are islamophobes” theory and figured I’d use ‘your’ term on you. ; )
“ …If you want to go and consider the past atrocities in Europe then nearly every country would be ineligible. Again see the list of countries that have joined recently and the ones expected to join in the future and you will find much more recent examples of atrocities… ”
Sadly, you’re absolutely correct; many wars, many innocent killed in every quarter of Europe. That being said, in Europe I believe only the Nazi Germany, the Communist Soviet Union and the Ottoman Empire (Turkey) ‘reached’ the level of genocide by killing people in the millions for the simple reason of ethnic/religious cleansing… Am I wrong?
"... Maybe the Europeans should have told them that many years ago before they started having negotiations with them to join... "
Well, for a while it looked like they wouldn’t need to apply for a European Union membership but rather would’ve “united” Europe (and most of the Middle east) in it’s own way…
(http://www.dartmouth.edu/~gov46/ottoman-empire-1580.gif)
" ...There is language in the treaty which says something like all members must respond to and give assistance and aid to any member that has been attacked... "
True and Europeans would come to each others' defense… in the form of sanctions, debates, condemnations, opinions and other worthless rhetoric.
The truth is the best guarantor of the European security since WWII and for many generations to come will always be the soldier swearing allegiance to the red, white and blue flag of the USA. Without the US and it’s might Europe would not flourish as much as it is today, neither would many of today’s countries still exist. It’s very sad they only remember that when it behooves them.
" ...I agree we need more wind turbines. A good example of how this is not going to do anything quickly is by looking at CapeWind which wants to build an offshore wind farm off Nantucket, Massachusetts. They first applied for permits back in 2001, I am not sure if it takes this long normally for wind farms to get approval, but if it does take this long we are screwed. For anything to work they would need to pass some laws which would allow certain projects to bypass all the red tape... "
Surely you must have heard about that controversy???
The very same greenies and lefties who’re so intensely passionate about environmental issues quickly change their mind (flip-flop?
) when the wind turbines become visible from their multimillion dollar beach houses. At that point the “global warming” becomes less important to them…
Quote from “The Wind and the Willful” - RFK Jr. and other prominent enviros face off over Cape Cod wind farm:
“…The four-year-old battle started heating up last summer when Greenpeace USA staged a demonstration against well-known eco-activist Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who's been an outspoken opponent of the proposal for a 130-turbine wind-power project in Horseshoe Shoal, a shallow portion of Nantucket Sound south of Cape Cod. Kennedy -- a senior attorney at Natural Resources Defense Council and a pioneer in the waterway-protection movement -- was on a sailboat for an event with the Alliance to Protect Nantucket Sound, which opposes the wind project. A Greenpeace vessel cruised up alongside with a banner that read, "Bobby, you're on the wrong boat" -- a stunt that was part of a larger Greenpeace campaign pressuring Kennedy to change his mind on the development. (Hear audio from the Greenpeace/Kennedy confrontation.)
In mid-December, Kennedy, wanting to explain his position to critics and the public at large, published an impassioned op-ed in The New York Times in which he argued that the wind farm would mar a precious seascape, privatize a publicly owned commons, and damage the local economy.
(Full article: http://www.grist.org/news/muck/2006/01/12/capecod)
Ha, I think I am all set with Turkey.
How about we settle this by keeping Turkey out of the EU but build thousands of wind power turbines in Turkey!? Deal?
Well, I’m sorry, that was just my cheap shot for this:
“ …It is plain and simple, if Turkey was christian they would have been part of the union long ago. To me I think this is nonsense since there is a large amount of angry Muslims already in the UK and France but people feel happy saying no to Turkey even though they would crack down on extremism faster than the UK or France ever would do… ”
I don’t think that’s nonsense at all and disagree with your “Europeans are islamophobes” theory and figured I’d use ‘your’ term on you. ; )
“ …If you want to go and consider the past atrocities in Europe then nearly every country would be ineligible. Again see the list of countries that have joined recently and the ones expected to join in the future and you will find much more recent examples of atrocities… ”
Sadly, you’re absolutely correct; many wars, many innocent killed in every quarter of Europe. That being said, in Europe I believe only the Nazi Germany, the Communist Soviet Union and the Ottoman Empire (Turkey) ‘reached’ the level of genocide by killing people in the millions for the simple reason of ethnic/religious cleansing… Am I wrong?
"... Maybe the Europeans should have told them that many years ago before they started having negotiations with them to join... "
Well, for a while it looked like they wouldn’t need to apply for a European Union membership but rather would’ve “united” Europe (and most of the Middle east) in it’s own way…
(http://www.dartmouth.edu/~gov46/ottoman-empire-1580.gif)
" ...There is language in the treaty which says something like all members must respond to and give assistance and aid to any member that has been attacked... "
True and Europeans would come to each others' defense… in the form of sanctions, debates, condemnations, opinions and other worthless rhetoric.
The truth is the best guarantor of the European security since WWII and for many generations to come will always be the soldier swearing allegiance to the red, white and blue flag of the USA. Without the US and it’s might Europe would not flourish as much as it is today, neither would many of today’s countries still exist. It’s very sad they only remember that when it behooves them.
" ...I agree we need more wind turbines. A good example of how this is not going to do anything quickly is by looking at CapeWind which wants to build an offshore wind farm off Nantucket, Massachusetts. They first applied for permits back in 2001, I am not sure if it takes this long normally for wind farms to get approval, but if it does take this long we are screwed. For anything to work they would need to pass some laws which would allow certain projects to bypass all the red tape... "
Surely you must have heard about that controversy???
The very same greenies and lefties who’re so intensely passionate about environmental issues quickly change their mind (flip-flop?
) when the wind turbines become visible from their multimillion dollar beach houses. At that point the “global warming” becomes less important to them…Quote from “The Wind and the Willful” - RFK Jr. and other prominent enviros face off over Cape Cod wind farm:
“…The four-year-old battle started heating up last summer when Greenpeace USA staged a demonstration against well-known eco-activist Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who's been an outspoken opponent of the proposal for a 130-turbine wind-power project in Horseshoe Shoal, a shallow portion of Nantucket Sound south of Cape Cod. Kennedy -- a senior attorney at Natural Resources Defense Council and a pioneer in the waterway-protection movement -- was on a sailboat for an event with the Alliance to Protect Nantucket Sound, which opposes the wind project. A Greenpeace vessel cruised up alongside with a banner that read, "Bobby, you're on the wrong boat" -- a stunt that was part of a larger Greenpeace campaign pressuring Kennedy to change his mind on the development. (Hear audio from the Greenpeace/Kennedy confrontation.)
In mid-December, Kennedy, wanting to explain his position to critics and the public at large, published an impassioned op-ed in The New York Times in which he argued that the wind farm would mar a precious seascape, privatize a publicly owned commons, and damage the local economy.
(Full article: http://www.grist.org/news/muck/2006/01/12/capecod)
Ha, I think I am all set with Turkey.
How about we settle this by keeping Turkey out of the EU but build thousands of wind power turbines in Turkey!? Deal?
Last edited by ⌐ AV8OR WANNABE; 07-12-2008 at 02:49 PM.
07-12-2008, 04:15 PM
#23
No one's home
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,091
Until we put all the cards on the table and develop a COMPREHENSIVE energy plan, we will continue to put the solution farther and farther into the future.
Wind, solar, hydro-, nuke, oil shale, coal, oil.. all combined. If one creates a 401K, the first thing the money-guy says is, "Diversify" but Congress keeps figuring out why we can't do something.
We went to the moon in less than six years because, as Kennedy said, we chose to do the hard things. Now unless it carries a pristine guarantee that nothing is going to go wrong, we stall debating which is best. There is NO silver bullet and that is the ruse.
Wind, solar, hydro-, nuke, oil shale, coal, oil.. all combined. If one creates a 401K, the first thing the money-guy says is, "Diversify" but Congress keeps figuring out why we can't do something.
We went to the moon in less than six years because, as Kennedy said, we chose to do the hard things. Now unless it carries a pristine guarantee that nothing is going to go wrong, we stall debating which is best. There is NO silver bullet and that is the ruse.
07-12-2008, 07:14 PM
#24
New Hire
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: PIC
Posts: 8
I think it's a great start. At least this Pickens is trying, which is more than can be said for our elected officials in Washington who continue to bury their heads in the sand.
Of course, Pickens, being the raging capitalist that he his, probably has an ulterior motive that would put billions in his pocket. I know he's building that giant wind farm out there in Texas
Of course, Pickens, being the raging capitalist that he his, probably has an ulterior motive that would put billions in his pocket. I know he's building that giant wind farm out there in Texas
07-12-2008, 07:47 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
Originally Posted by III Corps
Until we put all the cards on the table and develop a COMPREHENSIVE energy plan, we will continue to put the solution farther and farther into the future.
Wind, solar, hydro-, nuke, oil shale, coal, oil.. all combined. If one creates a 401K, the first thing the money-guy says is, "Diversify" but Congress keeps figuring out why we can't do something.
We went to the moon in less than six years because, as Kennedy said, we chose to do the hard things. Now unless it carries a pristine guarantee that nothing is going to go wrong, we stall debating which is best. There is NO silver bullet and that is the ruse.
Wind, solar, hydro-, nuke, oil shale, coal, oil.. all combined. If one creates a 401K, the first thing the money-guy says is, "Diversify" but Congress keeps figuring out why we can't do something.
We went to the moon in less than six years because, as Kennedy said, we chose to do the hard things. Now unless it carries a pristine guarantee that nothing is going to go wrong, we stall debating which is best. There is NO silver bullet and that is the ruse.
07-13-2008, 08:21 AM
#26
No one's home
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,091
Originally Posted by CaptainInop
Of course, Pickens, being the raging capitalist that he his, probably has an ulterior motive that would put billions in his pocket. I know he's building that giant wind farm out there in Texas
The problem we have is dependency on foreign oil and a Congress willing to inflict pain on the public in the quest for more partisan political power. They are willing to do nothing to solve the problem which exacerbates the pain and prolongs the situation. And what do they offer? Either/Or proposals which is akin to 'do you want a poke in the eye with a sharp stick or a swift hard kick in the raisins with a steel-toe boot?' Why does it have to be one or the other? Is that the best our elected leaders can offer? If that is the case, throw the entire bunch out and get some new thinkers not so mired in political rhetoric and partisan politics and WHO CAN SERVE THE AMERICAN PUBLIC!
No one seems to have a problem with crusty old Warren Buffet making bazillions. Or with hack actors making millions for schlocky pictures. Edison made a wad of money off his inventions... what happened to our admiration for problem solvers?
07-13-2008, 10:15 AM
#27
New boss = Old boss
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: Ca B737
Posts: 2,762
Golly, wind power, how revolutionary! A whole bunch of farmers in Tx and our country's bread basket already know all about wind farms and how they saved their family farm.
Tidal electricity generation could be a local answer too. Puget sound is one area where that could work.
Tidal electricity generation could be a local answer too. Puget sound is one area where that could work.
07-13-2008, 05:02 PM
#28
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 52
Originally Posted by ⌐ AV8OR WANNABE
Quote from The Wind and the Willful - RFK Jr. and other prominent enviros face off over Cape Cod wind farm:
The four-year-old battle started heating up last summer when Greenpeace USA staged a demonstration against well-known eco-activist Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who's been an outspoken opponent of the proposal for a 130-turbine wind-power project in Horseshoe Shoal, a shallow portion of Nantucket Sound south of Cape Cod. Kennedy -- a senior attorney at Natural Resources Defense Council and a pioneer in the waterway-protection movement -- was on a sailboat for an event with the Alliance to Protect Nantucket Sound, which opposes the wind project. A Greenpeace vessel cruised up alongside with a banner that read, "Bobby, you're on the wrong boat" -- a stunt that was part of a larger Greenpeace campaign pressuring Kennedy to change his mind on the development. (Hear audio from the Greenpeace/Kennedy confrontation.)
In mid-December, Kennedy, wanting to explain his position to critics and the public at large, published an impassioned op-ed in The New York Times in which he argued that the wind farm would mar a precious seascape, privatize a publicly owned commons, and damage the local economy.
(Full article: http://www.grist.org/news/muck/2006/01/12/capecod)
The four-year-old battle started heating up last summer when Greenpeace USA staged a demonstration against well-known eco-activist Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who's been an outspoken opponent of the proposal for a 130-turbine wind-power project in Horseshoe Shoal, a shallow portion of Nantucket Sound south of Cape Cod. Kennedy -- a senior attorney at Natural Resources Defense Council and a pioneer in the waterway-protection movement -- was on a sailboat for an event with the Alliance to Protect Nantucket Sound, which opposes the wind project. A Greenpeace vessel cruised up alongside with a banner that read, "Bobby, you're on the wrong boat" -- a stunt that was part of a larger Greenpeace campaign pressuring Kennedy to change his mind on the development. (Hear audio from the Greenpeace/Kennedy confrontation.)
In mid-December, Kennedy, wanting to explain his position to critics and the public at large, published an impassioned op-ed in The New York Times in which he argued that the wind farm would mar a precious seascape, privatize a publicly owned commons, and damage the local economy.
(Full article: http://www.grist.org/news/muck/2006/01/12/capecod)
Originally Posted by ⌐ AV8OR WANNABE
How about we settle this by keeping Turkey out of the EU but build thousands of wind power turbines in Turkey!? Deal?
07-14-2008, 03:57 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 117
Originally Posted by mike734
Golly, wind power, how revolutionary! A whole bunch of farmers in Tx and our country's bread basket already know all about wind farms and how they saved their family farm.
Tidal electricity generation could be a local answer too. Puget sound is one area where that could work.
Tidal electricity generation could be a local answer too. Puget sound is one area where that could work.
I've got 3 acres zoned agricultural. I'd love to put a wind turbine on my property, as long as it was hooked up directly to my house
I think that tidal electricity is awesome - what an easy, continuous source of energy! There's one off of the coast of Newport, Oregon. They're saying that "hydrokinetics" could power 10% of the nation. It's available 80-90% of the time, where wind generation is half-that.
If that will keep the farmers from selling their corn to make ethanol and instead, go back to feeding people and animals with it, maybe milk won't be $6/gal anymore...
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