Traditional Men Earn Most
09-22-2008, 05:45 AM
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Traditional Men Earn Most
Hmmmm, very interesting! So it has nothing to do with whether you are a Captain or First Officer, FedEx or Mesa. 
From Washington Post:
Men with egalitarian attitudes about the role of women in society earn significantly less on average than men who hold more traditional views about women's place in the world, according to a study being reported today.
It is the first time social scientists have produced evidence that large numbers of men might be victims of gender-related income disparities. The study raises the provocative possibility that a substantial part of the widely discussed gap in income between men and women who do the same work is really a gap between men with a traditional outlook and everyone else.
The differences found in the study were substantial. Men with traditional attitudes about gender roles earned $11,930 more a year than men with egalitarian views and $14,404 more than women with traditional attitudes. The comparisons were based on men and women working in the same kinds of jobs with the same levels of education and putting in the same number of hours per week.
Study: Traditional men earn most - Washington Post - MSNBC.com
Men with egalitarian attitudes about the role of women in society earn significantly less on average than men who hold more traditional views about women's place in the world, according to a study being reported today.
It is the first time social scientists have produced evidence that large numbers of men might be victims of gender-related income disparities. The study raises the provocative possibility that a substantial part of the widely discussed gap in income between men and women who do the same work is really a gap between men with a traditional outlook and everyone else.
The differences found in the study were substantial. Men with traditional attitudes about gender roles earned $11,930 more a year than men with egalitarian views and $14,404 more than women with traditional attitudes. The comparisons were based on men and women working in the same kinds of jobs with the same levels of education and putting in the same number of hours per week.
Study: Traditional men earn most - Washington Post - MSNBC.com
09-22-2008, 07:51 AM
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I wonder who these men were? Some of the characteristics that come to mind are: age, race, educational background; political party affiiation, religious or non-religious views; past & present socio-economic dynamics.
Seems as those who are "traditional" are more apted to be oppressive, explotive, cruel, brutal, authoritarian....etc, etc, etc. which is the exact opposite of egalitarian.
Study appears to be biased and skewed IMO.
atp
Seems as those who are "traditional" are more apted to be oppressive, explotive, cruel, brutal, authoritarian....etc, etc, etc. which is the exact opposite of egalitarian.
Study appears to be biased and skewed IMO.
atp
09-22-2008, 09:21 AM
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ATP's list of traits is pretty harsh and reactionary, but I suspect he has a point. I don't think traditional attitudes cause higher income...I think traits which lead to higher income also tend to lead to traditional attitudes.
09-22-2008, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by atpwannabe
I wonder who these men were? Some of the characteristics that come to mind are: age, race, educational background; political party affiiation, religious or non-religious views; past & present socio-economic dynamics.
Seems as those who are "traditional" are more apted to be oppressive, explotive, cruel, brutal, authoritarian....etc, etc, etc. which is the exact opposite of egalitarian.
Study appears to be biased and skewed IMO.
atp
Seems as those who are "traditional" are more apted to be oppressive, explotive, cruel, brutal, authoritarian....etc, etc, etc. which is the exact opposite of egalitarian.
Study appears to be biased and skewed IMO.
atp
09-22-2008, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by FDXLAG
This has my vote for stupid statement of the year. Are any Slick Willie gropees in the study that allowed you to make that generalization?
Now that's a very condensending statement. However, given the choice of words you used to describe my statement, I know what your intent was and I'll overlook it this time......buddy!!!
If you look up the word egalitarian, the antonym means exactly the words I listed. Therefore, one can conclude based upon the definition that "traditional" used in this context means the opposite of egalitarian.
At any rate, my perspective is taken from the fact that some men of Northern European descent here in America have been taught and/or raised to believe that a woman's place is in the home. Women's Sufferage, WWI & WWII allowed these women access to the workplace. They earned comparable wages, but , when the "boys came home" these women were displaced back to their traditional roles. This mindset has perpetuated itself to this very day. Hence the glass ceiling theory.
This mindset has to be changed. This country can ill afford in these days and times not to develop ALL of its human capital for sustainable economic growth. Reread the article. There's alot of subliminal/coded information there.
atp
Last edited by atpwannabe; 09-22-2008 at 01:23 PM.
09-22-2008, 01:19 PM
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Men with egalitarian attitudes about the role of women in society earn significantly less on average than men who hold more traditional views about women's place in the world, according to a study being reported today.
09-22-2008, 01:35 PM
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Led Zep, I have a JD and I use a word like this! So far, none of my Purple friends has presented evidence that I am wrong.
As I understand it, the study covered many people and followed them over a long period of time. Anything can happen in the intervening years and it boggles the egalitarian mind that the study authors can come to any conclusion at all. Like any study you read about out there (hmmm, trying saying that last phrase if you're a Canadian!), take it with a grain of salt. We are all very different creatures, a product of both genetics and environment. I was not born in this country and English is not my first language, but I confess that I sometimes think like a Northern European male. I also make more money than my husband.
So far, none of my Purple friends has presented evidence that I am wrong.As I understand it, the study covered many people and followed them over a long period of time. Anything can happen in the intervening years and it boggles the egalitarian mind that the study authors can come to any conclusion at all. Like any study you read about out there (hmmm, trying saying that last phrase if you're a Canadian!), take it with a grain of salt. We are all very different creatures, a product of both genetics and environment. I was not born in this country and English is not my first language, but I confess that I sometimes think like a Northern European male. I also make more money than my husband.
09-22-2008, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by vagabond
Led Zep, I have a JD and I use a word like this!
...We are all very different creatures, a product of both genetics and environment. I was not born in this country and English is not my first language, but I confess that I sometimes think like a Northern European male.
...We are all very different creatures, a product of both genetics and environment. I was not born in this country and English is not my first language, but I confess that I sometimes think like a Northern European male.
atp
09-22-2008, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by atpwannabe
Now that's a very condensending statement. However, given the choice of words you used to describe my statement, I know what your intent was and I'll overlook it this time......buddy!!!
If you look up the word egalitarian, the antonym means exactly the words I listed. Therefore, one can conclude based upon the definition that "traditional" used in this context means the opposite of egalitarian.
At any rate, my perspective is taken from the fact that some men of Northern European descent here in America have been taught and/or raised to believe that a woman's place is in the home. Women's Sufferage, WWI & WWII allowed these women access to the workplace. They earned comparable wages, but , when the "boys came home" these women were displaced back to their traditional roles. This mindset has perpetuated itself to this very day. Hence the glass ceiling theory.
This mindset has to be changed. This country can ill afford in these days and times not to develop ALL of its human capital for sustainable economic growth. Reread the article. There's alot of subliminal/coded information there.
atp
If you look up the word egalitarian, the antonym means exactly the words I listed. Therefore, one can conclude based upon the definition that "traditional" used in this context means the opposite of egalitarian.
At any rate, my perspective is taken from the fact that some men of Northern European descent here in America have been taught and/or raised to believe that a woman's place is in the home. Women's Sufferage, WWI & WWII allowed these women access to the workplace. They earned comparable wages, but , when the "boys came home" these women were displaced back to their traditional roles. This mindset has perpetuated itself to this very day. Hence the glass ceiling theory.
This mindset has to be changed. This country can ill afford in these days and times not to develop ALL of its human capital for sustainable economic growth. Reread the article. There's alot of subliminal/coded information there.
atp
I stand by my statement, and you have compounded the stupidity of yours. I haven't read the article; I have no intention of reading the article, as it does not interest me. The three credits of Feminist Literature I took in 1976 was enough to last a life time. But your generalizations are idiotic. The "Northern European" traditional values you disparage have brought more freedom and opportunity to all people regardless of sex than any other "cultural values" you care to name.
Wait six weeks and this page 1 study will be refuted. The problem is it won’t be published on page 1.
And I think slick willie is a perfect example of non traditional values males and their so called attitude towards women who are on the “receiving end” of power in the workplace.
09-22-2008, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by FDXLAG
Well pal,
I stand by my statement, and you have compounded the stupidity of yours. I haven't read the article; I have no intention of reading the article, as it does not interest me. The three credits of Feminist Literature I took in 1976 was enough to last a life time. But your generalizations are idiotic. The "Northern European" traditional values you disparage have brought more freedom and opportunity to all people regardless of sex than any other "cultural values" you care to name.
Wait six weeks and this page 1 study will be refuted. The problem is it won’t be published on page 1.
And I think slick willie is a perfect example of non traditional values males and their so called attitude towards women who are on the “receiving end” of power in the workplace.
I stand by my statement, and you have compounded the stupidity of yours. I haven't read the article; I have no intention of reading the article, as it does not interest me. The three credits of Feminist Literature I took in 1976 was enough to last a life time. But your generalizations are idiotic. The "Northern European" traditional values you disparage have brought more freedom and opportunity to all people regardless of sex than any other "cultural values" you care to name.
Wait six weeks and this page 1 study will be refuted. The problem is it won’t be published on page 1.
And I think slick willie is a perfect example of non traditional values males and their so called attitude towards women who are on the “receiving end” of power in the workplace.
If you think that I'm going to respond in an obsequious manner and accept that bull***t you just spouted, your sorely mistaken. Attitudes such as yours are based upon the idiotic mindset of "because of my ilk/phenotype I am right."
In terms of the NE values bringing freedom and opportunity to all...AU Contraire MON Frere. Just ask those not of NE heritage and I guarantee you you will get a different answer. Let's not even start to "chum" the water on that one.
As far as those "other cultures"....the ancient Egyptian & Chinese civilizations were light years ahead of NE tribes in terms of written languages, art, architecture, music, government, military strategy, etc. etc. etc.
Dare the truth be told according to you. Please....you got me bent!
atp
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